Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 41 of 41

Thread: My very first neander dovetail - go ahead and laugh, I can take it

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ossining, NY USA
    Posts
    61
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Pixley View Post
    I hope you don't take offense as none is intended. But, just looking at your pictures, I would offer that your chisel could be sharper for that soft end grain.
    Well, I was thinking that too, but on the tail piece I got nice very fine and smooth parings on the two outside edge cuts. These were NOT pounded down with a mallet but rather pared to the line carefully. On the other hand, sharpening never hurts (unless you do it badly). I'll see what I can do on the next set tomorrow.

  2. #32
    Edward,
    I commend your efforts. One thing (other than practice and more practice) I learned was to make a shooting board and use a jack plane to shoot the ends and edges of the mating boards. It makes life so much easier when everything is square and flat to start with, even for practice. The marks from a knife will also show up better on end grain that has been "shot". It was in practicing and learning to cut dove tails that I learned the value of really getting sharpening worked out. Today, I'm really glad I stuck with the effort and didn't give up. You'll do fine. Just keep a supply of band aids handy for when you start using really sharp tools. I was amazed at how many of my practice pieces were blood stained at first.
    Good Luck,
    Tom

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    7,252
    Blog Entries
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Clarke View Post
    Ok, here's a question for you experts. The undercutting method that Lonnie Bird recommends is specifically recommended against by Jim Kingshott. Kingshott agrees that it will look good, but says that the final strength of the joint will be much less and apparently there was a fine involved for apprentices that did it in the old days.

    So ... yes or no? Kingshott pares slowly to the line ( his example was a half blind dovetail though ) while Bird does the undercut. I don't mind doing either but I don't want to mix the two techniques until I get a lot better.
    I undercut on occasion, but it depends on the purpose of the joint and also the size. I also leave a significant land so that the joint has a solid point of contact.

    Knife-edge style undercutting will make a nice looking, but not very well functioning joint. Given the choice I'd take a slightly heavier looking glue line, but better functioning joint. The knife edge will crush slightly and will indent the side grain slightly. Now if the joint is worked overtime it's going to become loose quicker than a joint with a significant land.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Victoria, BC
    Posts
    2,367
    You know what? If you add glue, and they hold together, they are a good joint. What they look like is completely secondary. As a bonus, they look pretty damn good.
    Good stuff!
    Paul

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Clarke View Post
    Ok, here's a question for you experts. The undercutting method that Lonnie Bird recommends is specifically recommended against by Jim Kingshott. Kingshott agrees that it will look good, but says that the final strength of the joint will be much less and apparently there was a fine involved for apprentices that did it in the old days.

    So ... yes or no? Kingshott pares slowly to the line ( his example was a half blind dovetail though ) while Bird does the undercut. I don't mind doing either but I don't want to mix the two techniques until I get a lot better.
    People often undercut the end grain part of the joint since it doesn't contribute much strength and a belly there will keep the two pieces of wood apart. Undercutting on the tails, for example, will decrease strength.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas L. Miller View Post
    Edward,
    Just keep a supply of band aids handy for when you start using really sharp tools. I was amazed at how many of my practice pieces were blood stained at first.
    Good Luck,
    Tom
    I still haven't put a box in my shop. I just grab the nearest dirty rag and apply pressure while I continue working.

  7. #37
    You're right Richard. Done that too. I've used super glue, a paper towel and blue tape on the really nasty wounds. A physician friend saw me do that once and asked, "What were you; a combat medic in your past?" I told him no, and I promise to call you if I get a sucking chest wound.
    Tom

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    548
    Tom Miller, I keep a roll of paper towels near my bench, and I'm familiar with the quickly rolled sheet, wrap and blue tape routine. I have fond memories of SFC Perez-Valle teaching us how to deal with a "socking chest wound". LOL. Don't forget to use your cigarette pack cellophane wrapper...

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Lubbock, Tx
    Posts
    1,490
    From my combat life saver training manual: rub some dirt on it.

    Becksvoort shows using a vertical 'light tap' to get a square shoulder before hitting more heavily at a slight angle for an undercut.
    Last edited by Tony Wilkins; 02-02-2015 at 8:21 PM.

  10. #40
    OK...you forced me to do this...I'm just starting out with DTs myself. I've posted that I had problems, but chickened out of posting pics, but now, you've shamed me into doing it. So if you start to feel bad about yours, just take a look at mine. I just switched from a pull saw to a good DT saw and am in the process of learning to sharpen my chisels. I know with practice, we'll both improve...so they say...

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    3,441
    Derek, I have two primary thoughts when I look at your dovetails.

    In picture 1, look at the bottom pin, (top pin in picture 2). The pin does not come far enough forward. For me, this usually means that there is still "stuff" in between the tails that are preventing the tails from being pounded (umm, I mean pushed) in. Sometimes the problem is in the corners, if this is the case then you will see a clear gap yet it will still bind. It is also possible that there is something that the pin is hitting as you are pushing it in place, which would mean the bottoms or corners of your tail board.

    For my second thought, I am assuming that you did mark accurately. I have no idea if that is correct, but, I will assume it. Can you cut (saw) to the line? One primary problem to over-come is cutting to a line. For practice, take a board and draw lines to practice cutting on the board. I usually mark the top and one side of the board with a bunch of lines. If you want to be certain that you are sawing perpendicular to the board face, mark the back face and the front face. In case it is not clear what I mean, I can take some pictures if you want, but, the idea is that I end up essentially cutting a feather board by hand. Perhaps I mark lines every 1/4". So, if I have a board with say 15 marked lines, (for a rip cut, not crosscut), Make 5 cuts that follow the line on the left of the line (it should leave the line and follow it exactly), then 5 cuts that split the line (and remove it) and 5 cuts on the right side of the line (touching the line but leaving the line). In my opinion, this is probably the hardest part and cutting 100 practice cuts is not unreasonable.

    I cut my tails first (not that it matters), but, think about what it means if I then mark my pins. Where do I want the saw to cut? Assume for a moment that I marked with a pencil. If I cut out that pencil mark, then I removed too much wood because the pencil mark would show. If I mark with a knife, then I should be cutting right along that knife line, but, what side of the knife line? The knife line on the left side, I should cut on the right and the knife line on the right side I should cut on the left.

    There is, of course, always an issue with making straight cuts. I sometimes cut my tails so that the face is not perfectly flat (I waver a bit when I cut them). The saw, of course, will cut a straight edge on the pin (oops). I mean, it may waver as I go down, but the blade is straight so if there are waves as you cut down, that is a problem.

    Assuming you can cut to the line, and figure out where to make that cut, then, for me, my biggest errors are usually my taking too much out when paring trying to figure out which part of the joint is too tight. I sometimes deal with this by using a soft pencil and marking the edges of pins and then I can see where pencil is showing on my tails. It can provide insight into what part is catching. Also, as long as you pare INSIDE the joint away from the edges, you can still have a tight looking joint. If you take too much off, that will (of course) negatively affect the strength of the joint.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •