DNA vs Coleman Fluid "White Gas"

[Josh Bowman]

I'm concerned about the highly flammable vapors in gas. I fear pockets of it settling in your shop. A friend of mine, was severely burned with gas vapor that settled around him and ignited.

[Dan Hintz]

The main difference is that they are two completely different chemicals. Anything they have in common (flammability) is coincidental. DNA is a water soluble and is an alcohol. White gas/naphtha is a hydrocarbon and as such is oil soluble.

The way I understand alchohol drying is this way: Wood containing water in the cells is placed in a bath of alcohol for a couple days. The concentration of alcohol and water in the cells reaches equilibrium over time with the bath. This is possible because alcohol and water solubilize each other and hence can move freely over/through each other.

Then you take the bowl out of the solution, and the mostly dna remaining in the cells now passes through the cell walls more easily than the previous water could, and evaporates into the ambient air.

I would have thought that a water-containing bowl placed in a bath of white gas would repel the gas, and the gas would prevent the water from moving into the bath. It should in fact SLOW drying during the time it's emersed.

I would therefore think that any apparent drying you're seeing is coincidental and that your wood is just reasonably stable and would not have cracked even if you did nothing to it.

This pretty much mirrors my thoughts. Coincidental (placebo?). Without solubility of water, the solution really has no appreciable affect on the cell membranes (or their contents).

[Roger Chandler]

I think unleaded gas is just dangerous on many levels............I would not go there, any way, any how! Your mileage may vary, but I think getting into this type of experimentation is a problem in and of itself, and ups the potential for unintended consequences..............

[Steve Huffman]

I'm concerned about the highly flammable vapors in gas. I fear pockets of it settling in your shop. A friend of mine, was severely burned with gas vapor that settled around him and ignited.

Ok, like my original post stated, it's not for everyone and we have to be reasonable here too and use ventilation with any flammable material. Is DNA not flammable, or would you use lacquer finishes without ventilation? But I will tell you that it needs to be respected
like any other flammable liquid, used and stored properly. I have used white gas for 30 plus years in the taxidermy trade without any problems. I'm not asking anyone to use white gas, DNA, unleaded or anything for that matter, just sharing
what I'm doing and whats working for me. Don't even know why it displaces water, but things are drying in the same time as using DNA would.
Try it, don't try it, it's not for everyone. Not everyone in the taxidermy trade uses it either, but we would be lost without it.

[Tom Wilson66]

To add to the confusion, many turners also use dish soap to dry wood. I really don't know how soapy water will dry wood, but it seems to. Also, if there is water at the bottom of the white gas at the end of the soaking period, that does show the gas displaces the water instead of absorbing it. This by itself would speed up the drying process. I wonder if soaking in white gas followed by dna to get more of the water out of the wood would make it even quicker? Don't know what mixing white gas and dna would do, but I would use very small amounts which would be mixed outdoors by remote control to find out!

[robert baccus]

Complexity, difficulty and dangerous stuff do not guarantee results. Wax is 16.00$ a gallon and will do many bowls with a 98% success record.

[Ralph Lindberg]

To add to the confusion, many turners also use dish soap to dry wood. I really don't know how soapy water will dry wood, but it seems to....

LDD has been fairly well debunked as a method. People that have actually done full testing have found disappointing results.
I once had a chance to chat with a forest products person familiar with drying methods, he laughed at LDD for reasons much like your question.
He did know about DNA and gave several reasons why industry doesn't use it, including expense and difficulty predicting results.

[John Keeton]

There are so many variables involved in drying rough outs - wood species, local ambient conditions, etc., that it is difficult to say that any method is the "best" or "worst." I don't do a lot of bowls, and many of the ones I do are from dry wood. However, of the rough outs I have done in soft maple, cherry and walnut, I have had 100% success (warping, but no cracking) by simply Anchorsealing the exterior and rim, leaving the interior bare. I toss them under my workbench and pull one out when the mood hits. On average, they are dry enough to turn in about 3-4 months. I believe this method permits the bowl to shrink toward the exterior and minimizes any tendency to crack. Seems to have worked well for me, and it is cheap, quick and easy.

Again, I guess it depends on your time constraints and other factors mentioned and not mentioned. My method may or may not work for you.

[Thom Sturgill]

[snip]
We do know that some alcohols are consumable by humans so I wonder how toxic DNA is if allowed to totally evaporate prior to final finish?

DNA has additives to specifically make it poisonous to bypass alcohol taxes. The additives vary but include methanol, keytones, naptha, and others including syrup of ipecac to induce vomiting and pyridine to give it a bad odor.

Not sure, but I do not think I would want ipecac residue in a bowl either.

[Josh Bowman]

I have had 100% success (warping, but no cracking) by simply Anchorsealing the exterior and rim, leaving the interior bare. I toss them under my workbench and pull one out when the mood hits. On average, they are dry enough to turn in about 3-4 months. I believe this method permits the bowl to shrink toward the exterior and minimizes any tendency to crack. Seems to have worked well for me, and it is cheap, quick and easy.

And I've had great luck just dropping fresh rough outs in a card board box with the flaps loosely closed. This is how John Jordan and some other pros do it. So far I've not had a single crack out of the 8 or so I've dryed this way. This is similar to John K's method. ....just slow and control the drying process.

[Reed Gray]

I like Mike Mahoney's method. He dries his blanks in his wine cellar. Perfect temperature and humidity, in the 60 degree range, and 70% humidity, but I don't drink, so will never have that option. I have thought about a drying room some time, which would do the same thing. Bathroom type sheet rock on the walls, damp floor, dehumidifier, temperature control... Just too much work. Drying a once turned bowl is easier than drying a twice turned bowl rough out, and faster. I had tried the bagging method for madrone, and it just didn't work well, but then again, that is madrone. I have no idea how the idea that the LDD soak aided drying. I think that came about after the DNA soak method started going around the woodturning world. For sure, it made no difference in the once turned bowls, but then neither did the DNA soak.

Drying is an art form, and there is no 'one size fits all' or even a 'one size fits most'.

robo hippy

[Bob Bergstrom]

The easy solution to all these problems is to fine someone making some good moonshine. Submurge the bowls, and drink the left overs while the bowl drys. No more worries about food safe. It has been well test during the drying process

[Reed Gray]

Bob, that makes me think about how bad cottonwood smells, or persimmon, or walnut...... Cherry might be nice though...

robo hippy

[Roger Chandler]

The easy solution to all these problems is to fine someone making some good moonshine. Submurge the bowls, and drink the left overs while the bowl drys. No more worries about food safe. It has been well test during the drying process

That is WAY too far out for me......YUK!

[Bob Bergstrom]

Bob, that makes me think about how bad cottonwood smells, or persimmon, or walnut...... Cherry might be nice though...

robo hippy

Reed, good whiskey is aged in burnt white oak barrels, so how bad can a bowl be? Elm around here would be bad one also.