First big project - need help already

[Kurt Voss]

Greetings!

I've decided to make a platform bed for my son out of hard maple for the side rails and walnut for the corner pieces that join the rails together. I'd like to use sliding dovetails (oriented vertically to make breakdown simple) with the male portion on the end of each side and end-rails with the female portion in the corner pieces. I am having trouble figuring out how to cut the dovetails in the ends of 84" long pieces. Thanks in advance for any ideas.

[Bob Smalser]

Greetings!

I've decided to make a platform bed for my son out of hard maple for the side rails and walnut for the corner pieces that join the rails together. I'd like to use sliding dovetails (oriented vertically to make breakdown simple) with the male portion on the end of each side and end-rails with the female portion in the corner pieces. I am having trouble figuring out how to cut the dovetails in the ends of 84" long pieces. Thanks in advance for any ideas.

You mean "bed rails" and "posts"?

The bed rails are best bolted to the posts,often with special hardware, for easy disassembly. Still the smart way to do it.

If you're talking about headboard and footboard joinery, there exists no sliding dovetail you can't easily cut using a common router. Do the female first so you can do the male in increments for a perfect fit. You can freehand the router to a line like I do, or clamp on temporary battens as a guide.

[Jeff A. Smith]

I'd recommend examining some possibilities first...

1) Bed Bolts make a really TIGHT joint -- I'm not talking about one of those outfits where you screw a plate into the post and the rail has a "hook" that slips over it, I'm talking about bed bolts like this: http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product...ter=bed%20bolt

They make a bed so tight it won't rock.

2) I can't see a dovetail that actually MOVES (to allow for disassembly later) ever being anywhere close to that tight.

3) What if the dovetail is tight, but then over the years it either loosens due to uneven wood movement (shrinkage/expansion) between your maple and the walnut so that it becomes loose, or worse -- so tight you can't get it apart?

I'm no expert, so see what everyone else chimes in with -- but I've used the bed bolts, and whenever a person looks at the beds I've built, the first thing I always see them do is try to shake it -- and they can't. Then, they always remark about how solid it is. I'm about to build 2 more beds before Christmas, and I'm back to Rockler for more bed bolts.

Just an opinion... Hope it helps...

Jeff Smith
Athens, AL

[Dale Thompson]

Kurt,
My vote is with the previous posters. Sliding dovetails are VERY trickey. They require too many "perfect" conditions which do not normally exist with wood. Admittedly they look quite "professional" but, in reality, how many times do you see them in a "practical" applications.

Listen to the above pros, Kurt, it will save you a lot of frustration and loss of self-esteem!

Dale T.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I am with Dale and Jeff. I did a kids single bed with sliding dovetails. First they are hard to do at least for me they were. Had to free hand them. They went together ok but several years later it would not come apart because of the wood movement or swelling. It was Cherry and Maple. Never again. I will use the bolts from now on or the hooks (heavy duty ones) you screw on the rails and bed post. When my boy moved off to college the bed went intact. Just my humble opinion. Hopefully it will save you a lot of frustration.

Bernie

[Dan Forman]

Or, you might want to try these, look to be a better deal and much easier to install than the Rockler, just drill the hole and slide em in. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,31147&p=31147

Dan

[Bob Smalser]

You don't need anything fancy to use bolts in the place of mortise and tenon for special applications....you just need to be able to get a wrench on the nut. Has the advantage of two places to apply torque in disassembly instead of one using barrel nuts:





Add a shallow dado to house that rail so it sits on a shelf, and you won't find a stronger wood joint....with the added advantage of being KD. The holes are easily bunged for cosmetics.

[Jeff A. Smith]

Or, you might want to try these, look to be a better deal and much easier to install than the Rockler, just drill the hole and slide em in. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,31147&p=31147

Dan

I've never seen those before. I like them because they're a little longer than the Rockler offering. Thanks for posting that!

Jeff Smith
Athens, AL

[Bob Smalser]

Go to a good local hardware jobber like Tacoma Screw or even Ace Hardware and ask for "barrel nuts".

You may find you can get this set for 4 bucks rather than $22.00 plus shipping.

I don't like brass in that application anyway. Big wood is more likely to move on you a little bit and require some torque to pull in....and threading a long, tight bolt into a tight barrel nut without stripping isn't as easy as it appears.

[Donnie Raines]

I vote bed bolts as well. Much stronger and just as easy(well...almsot) to dis-assemble. Slideing dovetails would not be a very durable joint giben the application.

[Kurt Voss]

I sure appreciate the advice offered. I was hoping to have an exterior that was free of any need for "patching". Perhaps there's a way to bolt it from inside the rail with the barrel nuts in the posts?

[Chris Padilla]

Well, through tenons with wedges might be a way, Kurt. That would still be knock down and have no metal in it.

[Bob Smalser]

I sure appreciate the advice offered. I was hoping to have an exterior that was free of any need for "patching". Perhaps there's a way to bolt it from inside the rail with the barrel nuts in the posts?

This is the strongest KD joint I know of....but it'd work loose quickly from kids bouncing on the bed, so the tusk would benefit a seperate pin to hold it in place.

But they'll still work loose with seasonal movement....after a half dozen times tightening them, you'll wish you had used bolts.