First Time Using Stones...

[Derek Arita]

I'm getting into planes for the first time and that means getting into sharpening as well. I have a few planes, a couple that look pretty old, another that my Dad bought about 40 years ago, but never used and a brand new Wood River 4 1/2. I've tried sharpening with a Tormek, but that really didn't turn out as well as I'd hoped. Next, I sharpened with a Veritas MK II Power Sharpener and that turned out pretty well, however after watching some Rob Cosman videos, I decided it was time to try sharpening with stones. I now have a Trend 300/1000 diamond stone, an 8k Shapton ceramic and a 15k Shapton.
I used Rob's method, which was somewhat awkward and nerve-racking, but pretty quick. I compared my old planes sharpened with the MK II Power Sharpener, with the new Wood River, sharpened with the stones and of course, the Wood River was the clear winner. Thing is, I'm sure the WR may have been better by nature of it plane itself, as the other Stanely's were old and well used. That said, I have no experience at all with planes or sharpening, so I don't even know if my stone sharpened plane blade was done properly or not. I also have never used a well set up plane, so I don't even know what "good" feels like. I don't know how much resistance I should expect to feel with a well sharpened blade. I had to put all of my 138lbs, 5'6" behind the plane as it pushed thru. I can say however, that the WR had a much, much better feel while cutting, than the other's, sharp or not. I'm curious about how the WR would work after sharpening with the MK II Power Sharpener.
Here's a pic of plane and shavings. Please comment if anything stands out...like I said, I'm a babe in the woods...

[ken hatch]

Derek,

Your post brought a smile and remembrances of times long ago, well before the net when all I had to work with were some copies of a new magazine called Fine Woodworking, the Garrett Wade catalog and enthusiasm.

The Tormek is a good grinder, I use one, and will give a pretty good working edge when used with a strop. You didn't post why the Tormek sharpened edge didn't turn out well.

I've never used a Mark II but I expect like a Worksharp it will get you very close to "working sharp" if, and it is a big if, the back is flat and smooth. You can forget about most of the "sharpness tests" e.g. shaving arm hair, end grain of soft wood, and so on. The best test of sharpness is to just look at the iron. A sharp iron will have both faces polished or with a slight "haze", a very light consistent scratch pattern, and there will be no reflected light. If you see reflected light on the cutting edge either there is still some of the wire edge left and/or that part of the edge is not sharp.

How hard it is to push a plane depends on several factors, how smooth is the sole, did you wax the sole of the plane, did you plane with or against the grain, what kind of wood, how deep is the cut. Your shavings look a little thick, not bad but thick enough to offer some resistance to a less that sharp iron.

Good luck, it is a great journey,

ken

[Jim Matthews]

Sharpen up some of the blades on the older planes, too.

One of them will be "just right" for you to keep at your bench.
The most difficult part of sharpening for me was deciding
that I always want a sharp tool.

The often means stopping to resharpen, when a tool begins to drag.

[Chris Hachet]

Sharpen up some of the blades on the older planes, too.

One of them will be "just right" for you to keep at your bench.
The most difficult part of sharpening for me was deciding
that I always want a sharp tool.

The often means stopping to resharpen, when a tool begins to drag.

This is why I keep extra planes and chisels handy. I find it easier to pick up the next tool, keep working, and then sharpen several tools. YMMV.

[ken hatch]

Everyone has a different way of working. With my sharpening bench close and ready I find it better to sharpen when needed, nothing worse than a pile of dull tools to sharpen all at one time. Sharpen early and often works for me. As always with all things wood, YMMV.

My question for the OP, is where do you live and is there someone you can have look at your tools and/or show you how to get the best from them?

[Derek Arita]

You can see the block I was planing in one of the shots. I think it's redwood and I think I was planing with the grain. The shavings were thin enough to see lite through and were as thin as I could get a whole width with. Maybe I could have gotten thinner if the blade were sharper...I wish I knew. Did not wax the sole.
I don't know how flat the sole is on the new plane. I plan on flattening the sole of the old planes as practice, then I'll check out the new one. I don't anything about planes, but that Wood River plane sure is well made, so I hate to take sand paper to it.
I'm going to try a couple of angle jigs that I have...one is Veritas and the other looks like a Lie Nielsen...I think. Thanks for the replies.

[Chris Hachet]

You can see the block I was planing in one of the shots. I think it's redwood and I think I was planing with the grain. The shavings were thin enough to see lite through and were as thin as I could get a whole width with. Maybe I could have gotten thinner if the blade were sharper...I wish I knew. Did not wax the sole.
I don't know how flat the sole is on the new plane. I plan on flattening the sole of the old planes as practice, then I'll check out the new one. I don't anything about planes, but that Wood River plane sure is well made, so I hate to take sand paper to it.
I'm going to try a couple of angle jigs that I have...one is Veritas and the other looks like a Lie Nielsen...I think. Thanks for the replies.

I would not worry about flattening the sole on the older planes unless its way out. Nothing wrong with the wood river plane, actually they are pretty darned good. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Pretty much don't try to fix it if it is not broke.

Personally, I would take the worst of the older planes and use it as much as you can until you are happy with it. You will IMHO learn more about planes overcoming the shortfalls of a decent out of tune old Stanley than you will trying to reinvent the wheel with a newer one.

Keep dropping by, we love new input around here.

[Jim Koepke]

Sharpening isn't a skill one learns in a single afternoon.

You look to have a good start. You will likely be better next week, next month and next year.

If you are in the Portland, Oregon area send me a PM if you would like to get together and get your older planes up to snuff.

jtk

[Chris Merriam]

I too had all those same questions a year or two ago, it's just a slow learning process. I'm self taught as well and didn't have a finely tuned plane available to compare against. I was finally able to get up to WIA last year and feel what a well tuned infill plane felt like. It was awesome, like butter, hardly any effort and just a nice long full width shaving (that was a $2k+ plane BTW lol). My local Woodcraft has had all of their planes out to test for the last few months, maybe yours will as well?

My conclusions so far: Other than the slight physical effort, planing should be an enjoyable process. If the plane is skipping and chattering or getting stuck halfway through your pass, something is not set up right (or you're going against the grain). It should sound nice too, just a nice clean swoosh sound. You can hear this on youtube or handtool dvds. Head to the grocery store and pick up some paraffin wax in the canning section. Draw a squiggly s pattern down the sole and feel the difference when you plane with the wax.

And oddly enough, I had to pay less attention to threads on this forum, LOL! I am an over-analyzer by nature, so I'd read all the PHD-level 20 page posts about sharpening techniques and setting cap irons etc and was afraid I wasn't doing things correctly or I didn't have the right equipment. But there's really no substitute for just getting out and making shavings with the equipment you have, then come back in a year or two and these more complex discussions may take on new meaning for you.

[Derek Arita]

I too had all those same questions a year or two ago, it's just a slow learning process. I'm self taught as well and didn't have a finely tuned plane available to compare against. I was finally able to get up to WIA last year and feel what a well tuned infill plane felt like. It was awesome, like butter, hardly any effort and just a nice long full width shaving (that was a $2k+ plane BTW lol). My local Woodcraft has had all of their planes out to test for the last few months, maybe yours will as well?

My conclusions so far: Other than the slight physical effort, planing should be an enjoyable process. If the plane is skipping and chattering or getting stuck halfway through your pass, something is not set up right (or you're going against the grain). It should sound nice too, just a nice clean swoosh sound. You can hear this on youtube or handtool dvds. Head to the grocery store and pick up some paraffin wax in the canning section. Draw a squiggly s pattern down the sole and feel the difference when you plane with the wax.

And oddly enough, I had to pay less attention to threads on this forum, LOL! I am an over-analyzer by nature, so I'd read all the PHD-level 20 page posts about sharpening techniques and setting cap irons etc and was afraid I wasn't doing things correctly or I didn't have the right equipment. But there's really no substitute for just getting out and making shavings with the equipment you have, then come back in a year or two and these more complex discussions may take on new meaning for you.

Good advice. I think you're right in that I just have to do it. I also think I'm having to put too much effort into planing the wood. I know it should be easier than that. Thing, where am I going wrong...better sharpening, better setup, better planing technique? Probably all of the above. Is there anything that led you to that "ah-ha" moment?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Those are some decent looking shavings. I too am curious as to how things worked poorly with the Tormek.

Disclaimer: If 100 people respond to you, you will likely hear 100 different methods; and most work for those people.... and I am most certainly not the best sharpener on this forum.

I will admit that my primary interest with my tormek is to establish the hollow grind (not that I can't make things very sharp using just the Tormek). After I have the hollow grind, I am able to free hand sharpen on the stones because the hollow grind provides a really easy to feel surface while free handing. That said, I still go very slow and am very careful when I do this, but, it makes for a very fast sharpen or touch-up when I do it.

An issue with the Tormek, I also had when using a guide. The blade must be perpendicular to the holder (assuming that the edge is actually straight as it should be). With the Tormek, if I use only it, then I probably need to recondition the stone twice (once for course and then once for fine). Then, I probably need to move things around so that I can use the strop. That always took time for me, which is why I went to free handing on the stones and only use the Tormek to establish (and re-establish when needed) the hollow grind.

With the guide, you do not have this issue, you just simply move on to the next stone.

I assume that the back of your blade is already nice...

I did not look to see where you live, but, if you are near Columbus, OH, look me up and we can do some sharpening. I can see what you call sharp and you can see what I call sharp. We can both learn something.

[Chris Merriam]

An ah-ha moment? Not really, quite the opposite, it was more an affirmation that I was ok as-is. After going to WIA and sampling the LV, LN, and ridiculously high end planes, and also taking Rob Cosman's hand plane class, I realized that what I was already doing was in the ball park of "normal" and "good enough" for basic work.

During the class, Rob took my plane to show me something and other than setting the blade depth he didn't make any negative comments, said it was set up fine, he just quickly went to work with it. This kind of mirrors his sharpening philosophy of keep it simple and just get it done. I'm sure there's lots of subtle tweaking I can learn, but I know I've got the basic functionality covered now.

It's a tough spot to be in. 30 minutes of one-on-one instruction would probably answer all of your questions. You know what you need to do, you just need somebody to watch you do it and critique.

[Terry Beadle]

Just a wondering comment....
I note that the edges of your shavings are not frayed. Unless they are unusually thick( ie. greater than 6 thou ) they should show some fraying from having
formed a very slight bevel at each edge of the cutting end. Do you get plane tracks on the surface?

Another question ( don't worry, I'm full of them but I can't type fast so that works out...hoot! ) is can you take a 1 thou shaving?
For me that was a litmus test of my plane's set up and fettling.

[Brian Holcombe]

Good advice. I think you're right in that I just have to do it. I also think I'm having to put too much effort into planing the wood. I know it should be easier than that. Thing, where am I going wrong...better sharpening, better setup, better planing technique? Probably all of the above. Is there anything that led you to that "ah-ha" moment?

The shavings look pretty good, they're curled up so the chipbreaker is set well. It shouldnt take a huge effort to push a #4 plane. Wax the sole if you havent already and focus on your technique.

You dont need to bear down on a plane, just locate the cut and push.