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Thread: Jonter/Planer Combo

  1. #1

    Jonter/Planer Combo

    This has been discussed here. I think i have read through most all of it, along with anything i could find anywhere else on the interweb.

    The topic jointer planer combo.

    Hammer A3-31 or MiniMax FJ30. Silent power cutter head or Tersa?

    My questions or inquiries go like this. I like most am inclined to think the build quality of the MiniMax machine is mildly superior.

    On the other hand i did play with a Hammer A3 yesterday with the spiral cutter head and was very very impressed. That head is like a Ferrari! I ran some birdseye and mahogany through it and was like wow! Any irregularities i took care of with a quick pass of 220.

    So the Tersa pro is ease of swapping blades. Spiral pro is finish quality for the most part. I have read and did see with my own two eyes on the wood i passed over the silent cutter head the very minor scalloping. Again 220 took care of it 1-2-3. I work in just about all hard figured wood. Think teak, birdseye, babinga so forth and so on. I almost never use anything soft or not figured. The silent cutter head left no tear out. My old Yates straight knife machine and Dewalt lunch box planer make a mess of the same material leaving major tear out!

    I have read some stuff about people having problems with the tables on the Hammer machine not being flat. I found one complaint about the same on the MiniMax. So the question is to those who have now had the machines a while. Much of the info to be found is from years ago now. I wonder to these people how do you like your Hammer machine after having it a while. Have you had problems with the tables. Have you had problems with scalloping on the silent cutter head. If you have had problems how has dealing with Felder/Hammer been?

    I generally like the MiniMax machine more but it cost $1100 more and that is without a spiral cutter head. If i upgrade that myself the machine is $2400 more. In the end if the machine is superior to the Hammer i am not worried about the $2500 as i plan to have the machine for many moons.

    One thing other than fit and finish that i like about the MiniMax machine is the S/1 230 4.8 horse motor vrs the Hammers S/6 230 4.0 horse motor. As i understand it the Hammer motor only uses 40% of its horsepower while the minimax uses all 4.8. On the other hand the Felder or Hammer silent cutter head requires much less power to turn it than the Tersa or the comparable Byrd head.

    Also has anyone experienced and problems with the MiniMax machine i should be aware of. I have read their customer service can be a nightmare. That is pretty scary as we all know sometimes machines show up and have problems right off the pallet. If you end up with a company that is not proactive and assuming all responsibility it can really stink!

    Thank you all in advance for any insight you can offer. This is a big purchase for me.

    i am also interested or really looking at buying the Felder RL 125 over the Onieda V3000. I recently read bad stuff about the filters clogging on the Felder machine. Anyone have any thoughts on that for me!
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 02-22-2015 at 1:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Southwestern CT
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    1,392
    If possible, compare the sound of the two you are considering with dust exhaust operating. My 16" has a four blade head (straight blades) and while it is pretty loud anyway, it just howls when the blast gate is opened (and dc is on). Important because it is the one tool that simply cannot be operated without dust collection. My 8" Powermatic would at least work without dust collection. Tersa blades are relatively inexpensive, typically come in a variety of flavors (carbide for instance) and are easy to change without making any jointer height adjustments. To my knowledge, none of the Euro machines support rabbeting, so if that is a requirement, look elsewhere.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    283
    Are you sure your pricing is accurate? I went through this a year ago and the hammer with spiral was roughly 4k, and the MM was 3400, but the price was going up soon to 3800ish I think.

    one difference I didn't realize is the MM tables have to be lifted separately, and there is no spring assist like the hammer. Not a big deal just takes a second longer.

  4. #4
    Yup quoted $5300 plus $400 shipping on the MM FJ30 classic with the Tersa cutter head.

    If the MiniMax was indeed the price you got quoted a year ago i would purchase it and upgrade the cutter myself without thinking twice about it.
    Last edited by Chris Padilla; 02-23-2015 at 7:01 PM.

  5. #5
    I wanna hear about problems with the Hammer tables not being flat.

    That would be a big deal breaker on either machine for me. I'd be even more upset if the rep then told me to get lost and I was out of my mind for caring.
    Last edited by Chris Padilla; 02-23-2015 at 7:01 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    283
    Hmm, you've said FJ30 twice now, I assumed the first time was a typo for FS30, but maybe we're talking different machines?

    My FS30 tables have a hollow of about 3 thousands, hasn't seemed to have caused an issue yet.

  7. #7
    My bad FS30.

    Hollow, explain please?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    283
    The tables aren't perfectly flat, they are dished/hollow/concave by about three thousandths in the middle of each table. So placing a straightedge from end to end, I can't fit a feeler gauge under the first and last five inches, but in between I can slip in a .003 gauge.

    again, I haven't checked pricing in a year, but your MM quote seems too high. Have you checked with Erik Loza on the board here? He was my sales rep. You should send him a PM.

  9. #9
    I will do that thanks for the info.

    all the info i can gather will help better make this decision.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    65,688
    I have been absolutely satisfied with the Tersa cutting heads on my MM J/P and I've had it since about 2004. They are versatile, easy to change, easy to adjust to deal with a nick and do a great job. Skewing highly figured or "tough to surface" material at an angle on the wider jointer bed generally gives a very clean cut. I have never felt the need for a spiral head, although I'll certainly acknowledge that they are really nice.

    Do pay attention to the dust collection requirements for these machines. Not optional and you don't want something that can't handle the profuse output of chips and dust from these great machines!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #11
    Thanks for the feedback.

    I'm going to go with either the oneida V3000 or the Felder RL125.

    To date i just let my old Yates jointer build a pile of chips under it and vac it up as i go. Same with my Dewalt luch box planer. I have set it up to a shop vac but its more of a pain than its worth so i normally just let it rip and dust out my shop in a major way.

    Part of the motivation for this machine is to be done with all the dust. A better part of this last year was spent upgrading my old tools to Festools mostly motivated by dust collection. It started innocently with the TS 75 and a Carvex. I then got a Midi because the shop vac thing was getting old. I was so impressed with those purchases i moved on to a MFT/3 another MFT the CMS VL and the 1400 router. Again being floored by the dust collection i moved on to a Kapex the RO90 a DTS400 and CT36. I couldn't stand the hype over the TSX drill and it was inexpensive by comparison so i ended the purchasing spree with that. At this point i work nearly dust free as compared to before. After all these Festools my aim is to have as little dust as possible in my shop. After 20 years in the trades working without dust is so nice. Being a carpenter and not working for myself i deal with more than my fair share of dust Monday through Friday. On the weekend i want to sip coffee dust free in my workshop while i get my perfectionist on

    i was pretty set on the Felder unit till i found a bunch of info on the filters that suggested they like to clog. Seems you can add a automated feature to do this for you as apposed to the wiggle handle thing. I also read replacing the filter is a $800 plus affair and I'm not really interested in that just to have a machine that saiz Felder.

    I will also add a drum sander to my shop at some point, probably the Felder 650. I guess the filters in the RL dont like the fine dust of a drum sander.

    This is a lot of money to spend all at once but will be worth it. I have been chipping away at a legitimate shop for about a year now. I still have quite a few big purchases i could and will make. The reality is i get quite a bit done now as i am so none of it is dire straights. Just a case of want not need.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I have been absolutely satisfied with the Tersa cutting heads on my MM J/P and I've had it since about 2004. They are versatile, easy to change, easy to adjust to deal with a nick and do a great job. Skewing highly figured or "tough to surface" material at an angle on the wider jointer bed generally gives a very clean cut. I have never felt the need for a spiral head, although I'll certainly acknowledge that they are really nice.

    Do pay attention to the dust collection requirements for these machines. Not optional and you don't want something that can't handle the profuse output of chips and dust from these great machines!
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 02-23-2015 at 9:45 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    919
    The hammer tables on my machine are very flat. I got the byrd head, so I'd get the silent power head if I was buying again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    I wanna hear about problems with the Hammer tables not being flat.

    That would be a big deal breaker on either machine for me. Id be even more pissed if the rep then told me to get lost and i was out of my mind for caring.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,688
    Run at least a 6" line out to the J/P from the DC. You can reduce to 5" for that last piece of flex and then use a Fernco rubber plumbing boot from the home center to attach to the 120mm port on the MM. Hammer is likely similar if you go that route, but I don't know what their port size is. And again, you do need your DC to be in place before you can operate these J/P machines. They will clog in about a half second without DC. Nature of the beast...
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  14. #14
    How wide is your old Yates jointer? You might check on woodweb to see if there is a used machine close to you. For me the cost of driving half way across the country to get a used machine would cost more than just buying new. But I see some great deals in the east and north parts of the country.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Virginia and Kentucky
    Posts
    3,364
    Glad to see you considering Felder. Felder is more in line with MiniMax as parity goes. Hammer is the hobby line but still good. I chose the MiniMax FS35 with the Byrd Shelix head. It works great. It certainly makes up for the wood butcher's inadequacies in the hobby.

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