Brand New and Overwhelmed with Powertool Options

[Rod Sheridan]

Brand / model?

I went from a General to a Hammer A3-31.............Rod.

[Andrew Joiner]

Andrew - You asked what I am going to build. Let me explain my experience with welding, that may help. I had an item at my house break and thought, "Crap, well lets go buy a entry level machine so I can fix it, then I will have a welder on the off chance I ever use it." Well, that was four years ago. I have since had to buy and re-buy as I upgraded all my equipment once I realized I had a passion for fabrication that makes it so my wife drags me out of the shop each night. So at this point I want to make a bunch of shelving and cabinets for my welding, automotive, fabrication shop. But, I know how I am and five years from now I will probably be completely addicted to woodworking. Especially since the people I know who do both metal and wood tend to prefer wood. So the short answer is, "I'm not quite sure I know what I want to build, but I want to get tools that will allow me to build most anything without having to sell and repurchase for more capacity etc."

I don't know if that helps or not.

I understand needing to check each machine once it is received. I am sure that there are somethings that if out of spec are easy fixes and others that are huge fundamental issues. (Replace a bearing vs an improperly machined cast iron top) I would prefer to not have to monkey with any "fixes"

Good idea to start with the shop cabinets. I would recommend plywood rather than solid wood for that. Do you have a source for rough hardwood? If not a jointer and planer can be put off for now. Is money no object? Do you have a helper? For a one man shop a vertical panel saw is ideal. The Milwaukee is about $1,300 shipped.

If you buy new machines test them right away. If the tops aren't flat (rare) the seller will send new ones. Bearings(very rare) are harder to replace and you might want to send the machine back.

[Andrew Joiner]

I looked at the prices on the Grizzly line. I am under the impression that you get a lot more bang for your buck with Grizzly vs Jet or Powermatic because they sell direct and not through distributors. Is this correct?

I would agree. Many woodworkers here have had good Grizzly experience. I'd say they rate high for value and performance.
With that in mind you will find a ton of different opinions here. I've seen many woodworkers do incredible work with low cost tools. From Harbor Freight on up they all have "gems". Gems are tools that work well despite cost. If it's a low cost gem you get more value or more for your money.

Even if money is no object it makes sense to start simple. Go to a Borg. That's code here for Lowes, Home Depot and Menards type places. Find out the return policy. Buy a few basic tools. Go home and try them out. You can cut 4x8 sheets on a cheap table saw with help, and the right blade. Infeed and outfeed support tables will help tremendously.
If your by yourself google "homemade track saw".

[Erik Christensen]

been there & done that - good luck with your search. I think grizzly offers the best 'entry' tool for most categories (8" jointer, 15" planer, etc) - from there you can move up in price - more $$ 'usually' gets more features/precision and often increased durability. 3/4 of my major tools are grizzly green and every one was purchased with the idea "if I wear it out/out grow it; I must need something better" - after 5+ years I have concluded that most of them will last longer than I will.

commercial shops can run machines for hours a day - as a weekend hobbyist you might run your planer a couple of hours a month on average - why pay for durability that you will never in a dozen lifetimes ever need?

[Marty Tippin]

I've got the Grizzly 8" jointer and 15" planer, both with helical cutter heads and find they're very capable and good quality tools. I did have a pretty major wreck with my planer the other day - look for my post about "an expensive Friday the 13th lesson" for details. Not really a knock on the helical cutter heads at all, but you should know going in that the carbide insert knives are expensive to replace when they break.

You'll need a good dust collection system regardless of what brand of tools you purchase - the planer produces the vast majority of shavings in my shop and that probably holds true in most shops. I'm still using a portable Grizzly DC at the moment, but every time I have to move the hose from one machine to another, I get a little closer to buying a cyclone and permanent ducting...

If you're planning your "once and forever" woodworking setup, you should include a cyclone dust collector *and* the cost of duct work in your plans -- you can easily spend more on DC than on several large power tools...

[Rod Sheridan]

[QUOTE=Marty Tippin;2380897]
You'll need a good dust collection system regardless of what brand of tools you purchase - the planer produces the vast majority of shavings in my shop and that probably holds true in most shops.
QUOTE]

That's certainly true Marty, in fact if you're dimensioning 4/4 rough to 3/4 finished you're converting 25% of your material to shavings..........Rod.

[Peter Kelly]

you can easily spend more on DC than on several large power tools...

You can easily spend more on ducting than the collector itself too. Certainly worth the investment though.

[Mike Heidrick]

Lots of great advice here. Many Asian PM machines are made in the same factory as Grizzly so consider that.

12" jointer is super nice and you typically get nice long infeed and out feed tables on standalone 12" jointers.

I have a 20" planer with segmented infeed rollers - love that feature.

I have not had the reason to upgrade either machine to a byrd but maybe someday I will. For now my straight knives work amazing.

These are very heavy machines. Make sure you can deal with heavy machinery if you go down this route.

[glenn bradley]

The one thing people always seem to find out later is that the FIRST tool they should have bought was their dust collector. Everything else comes after that. JMHO.

[scott spencer]

I looked at the prices on the Grizzly line. I am under the impression that you get a lot more bang for your buck with Grizzly vs Jet or Powermatic because they sell direct and not through distributors. Is this correct?

No dealer markup, and shorter warranty are the primary reasons Grizzly can sell for less. You have to be willing to be your own middle man, but otherwise the quality is quite good. Jet makes some good machines, but I'm not convinced that they offer much better quality (if any) for the price difference.

[Peter Aeschliman]

My take...

I have never understood why people buy 8" jointers and big planers. When you mill rough lumber, you will be limited to your smallest of those two machines.

Although I'm always conscious of space, I don't think the decision of whether to buy a combo machine is purely about space-savings. I decided to buy a combo machine because I wanted to be able to run the same sized workpieces through my jointer as I do on my planer, and I wanted to be able to work with stock much wider than 8", as lots of rough lumber comes wider than 8". I also decided that I wanted a spiral cutter-head to reduce setup time and dealing with tear-out. I'd rather do woodworking than fidget with machines.

The cost of a separate large jointer and large planer both with spiral cutterheads was way over my budget. But since a combo machine uses one motor and one cutterhead, it was more economical to get a combo machine to get the features and functionality I wanted. I ended up buying a 10" Jointer/Planer combo from Laguna Tools. That was a number of years ago. I was trading up from a 6" jointer and a 15" planer and it completely changed the enjoyment of my hobby (which is the point of it all, right?).

I was younger at the time and my hobby budget was smaller. Now that I have more disposable income, I lust for the Hammer A3-31... but have upgrades that are higher on the priority list.

But it sounds to me like you have a healthy budget and you clearly don't want to waste money on machines you will later replace. Also, if your shop is 20x20 (400 sqft), I think you will eventually find that you're tight on space if you fill your shop with the typical WW machinery. That is a totally workable shop size, but don't forget about the open space needed to move materials around and build big projects like dining tables.

So, all told, my recommendation is to spend your ~$6k Jointer and Planer budget on a good european combo J/P machine. You will maximize your functionality and accuracy for the money, and give yourself more shop layout options... and you will never have upgrade lust.

You of course will need good dust collection, a table saw, maybe a bandsaw, lots of hand tools, etc etc, the list goes on. But I'm staying focused on jointers and planers. ;-)

[Kent A Bathurst]

The one thing people always seem to find out later is that the FIRST tool they should have bought was their dust collector. Everything else comes after that. JMHO.

Another yeahbut...........

Glenn, yeah, you are correct, but.........ya gots to know what type sof machines you will be pulling from, and what their dia & cfm requirements will be.

Admittedly, most will fall within a certain range, but still.............

And - I agree with you entirely - no need to start throwing Old Testament amounts of shavings and dust if you don't have a method in place to deal with that plague of locusts. The volumes can be pretty impressive.

[Peter Kelly]

No dealer markup, and shorter warranty are the primary reasons Grizzly can sell for less. You have to be willing to be your own middle man, but otherwise the quality is quite good. Jet makes some good machines, but I'm not convinced that they offer much better quality (if any) for the price difference.

Grizzly is actually the middle man, just not a third-party. Their machines are sourced from Chiu Ting Machinery and others on the mainland. http://www.geetech.com.tw/index.php/...-partenrship-e

[Daniel McPherson]

I changed the layout of the floor plan. It is now going to be approx 22X28 with 9' ceilings. Remember that raw materials don't have to be stored in that space and neither. It seems like I should go with a really high quality J/P at this point. FYI I just bought a crapload of Festool stuff. Track saw, 2 routers, 2 sanders, MFT table, Domino etc, dust extractor. So, for dust collection it looks like I will need it for my table saw, J/P combo and ????.

The powermatic stuff is on sale right now, should I be looking at their dust collection systems or someone else like Oneida?

[Kent A Bathurst]

........... a crapload of Festool stuff...............

Couldn't have said it better myself............ Where you gonna store the 17 Systainers?

Sorry - just a guy that resists the whole Green Kool-Aid schtick. You'll be very happy with that gear - it is definitely top quality - hands down.

Except the MFT table - that seems like marketing took over, as opposed to common sense, but not my problem - never heard feedback good enough to warrant the $$.........seems a bit mickey-mouse cheesy to me. But - to each his own - clear sailing and godspeed.

.The powermatic stuff is on sale right now, should I be looking at their dust collection systems or someone else like Oneida?

Daniel - it is like the other machinery decisions you have made, IMO, and your direction seems pretty clear. So, my insight is this:

Buy the PM, and spend the next few years thinking about the Oneida you did not buy, or buy the Oneida and never look back. Keep in mind the $$ for piping a cyclone - that is non-trivial. But - Oneida will design the whole shebang for you, which is a good thing.