Router

[Bernie Weishapl]

Does anyone have or has used a Marvel 60 VS 3hp router? They have it on special now for $179.90 + free shipping with a extra clear base plate and 9 piece PC type brass templet guide set. MLCSwoodworing has it. Just curious as I was considering the Hitachi M12V but I like the idea of getting the templet guides as I am also looking at the PC Dovetail machine with the extra templet to do finger or box joints. Thanks.

Bernie

[jack duren]

curious myself. looks like a dewalt replica. good price if someone knows who actually is behind making it....jack

[Corey Hallagan]

It looks almost identical to the Dewalt 625. It even comes with a case, has 8 position turret and also has a better built in DC chute. Free Shipping, a 35.00 set of bushing guides... sounds like a good deal!

Corey

[Wes Bischel]

Bernie,
The link I have says $139 including the extenal speed control,base and template guides.
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops...e/sp050726.htm

Unless i'm reading it wrong - which wouldn't be the first time.

Wes

[Corey Hallagan]

Not the same router, it doesn't have the VS built in but uses a seperate external spped control. The 179.00 model has the soft start and the VS built in. Big difference for the $40.00.

Corey

[Corey Hallagan]

Bernie, perhaps this review will help. Just one persons view but my be helpfull. Inthe end I think he decided that the Hitatchi is a better router but the Marvel is an acceptble router and a better value considering the price and you may as well with what is included.

http://www.blackwallnutjigs.com/M60test.asp

Corey

Bernie, here is the text from another forum on his initial impressions as well:

SOURCE added by Moderator: http://www.bt3central.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13654, Copyright 2005 by Mark Stripes, aka. BlackWallnut.

Several weeks ago I posted a question about this router and due to the responses that no-one has used this router I thought that I'd be the guinea pig so to speak and order one. It arrived in good condition via Airborne Express less than a week after I placed the order over the phone. I opened the box, well actually I opened two boxes since they ship it in a box inside of a box. Browsed through the users manual and then layed out all of the contents on my saw station as pictured above. Included everything pictured. The day after placing my order Thom2 posted the link to MLCS also including 10 1/4" carbide router bits with purchase of the MLCS router, a quick phone call and those were also on their way but in a seperate shipping carton, thus thay were not available at the time of the picture, but I have since recieved tham and have even used one of them. I was really impressed with the fact that MLCS includes a spare set of brushes even though I've yet to need to replace any brushes on any of the power tools that I own. Still it's nice to know that when the time comes I'll not have to wait a week for parts before I can continue my project, but we are talking years down the road. I was disappointed with the collet wrench, thinking that it is way too thin and may prove to be not very durable. MLCS claims that this router is suited to heavy daily useage in a production environment whatever that means! Fit and finish of the micro-adjustment devices on both the edge guide and plunge rod is very poor IMHO yet they do what they are supposed to do as long as the user is paying attention and makes sure both parts turn together. The router was shipped with a metric scale on the plunge depth rod along with a note of sorrow from MLCS and a replacement inch scale sticker which I've yet to attach. Some may find that they actually prefer the metric scale so this may actually be a plus.

The main reason for my purchase of this router was to mount in my saw/ router station as my dedicated table mounted router with capabilities of spinning my 3 1/2" flat panel raising bit. When I recieved my new large aluminum mounting plate from Rockler's a couple days after the router I used the supplied clear plate as a template to drill the new plate to accept the router. When I have done this in the past for other routers on a different plate I've not had any problems. I first install abit centering tool int he router and a template guide in the base plate and then plunge the router onto the plate so as to center the router to the plate, then I carefully draw an outline of the router's base, remove the router, affix the router's sub base to the mountin plate with two sided tape and then drill the mounting holes. So I did this but when I went to attach the router to the mounting plate I discovered that it was no longer centered! I now have two sets of mounting holes in my brand new expensive router mounting plate! Only later did I discover what went wrong! Since I needed to trim the laminate on my new saw station I chucked up a bevel bit in the new router and trimmed away. I noticed that the cut was somewhat rough because of bit chatter. At the time I just assumed that it was just due to the 1/4" shank bit. I normally use 1/2" bits whenever possible. Only after using a flush cutting bit to flush up my dust extraction hole in the back of the new cabinet did I notice that the 1/4" shank bit (a know good quality bit) seemed to wobble in the router! Out comes my Universal centering-alignment tool, it seems that the 1/4" collet supplied with my new router was milled incorrectly and as such has a noticeable amount of runout! I checked the 1/2" collet and it is fine. I'm so used to dealing with customer service on par with Ryobi that I was disappointed with the "service" I got when I called MLCS about this problem. MLCS asked me to ship the bad collet to them and they would gladly replace it. Ryobi on the other hand would have just quickly shipped a new part!

Speaking of collets the MLCS router has a collet similar in design to what Porter-Cable uses see pictures www.blackwallnutjigs.com/images/917.jpg and www.blackwallnutjigs.com/images/916.jpg. This is a good design IMHO and should do it's job over the years that I own this router.

So far I have used this router to trim and bevel the edges of my saw station top, flush up the dust port and install the "T-tracks" in my top. I have also used the router with my PC dovetail jig to make the drawers for the saw station. I have found that with the new router I needed to re-adjust my dovetail jig. So far the router has performed its job well with the 1/2" collet and poorly with the defective 1/4" collet. I have yet to use the router mounted in the table. I did find that the dust collection built-in to the router was next to useless while cutting dovetails but I'll also assume this to be the case with any of similar design while used with a template guide (PC style) installed. I also found that the shipped 5/8" template guide was too long to be used with my dovetail jig.

Overall I feel that this router is a fair deal given the free inclusions with purchase, the edge guide fence works just fine, the brass template guides are usefull as is the sub-base that the guides fit, and the 10 carbide router bits even though 1/4" shanks are of the expected MLCS quality and will be usefull. I do not own a Hitachi M12V router so any comparason is based stictly on price and accessories supplied with the router; I belive that for a woodworker that is purchasing a first router for mainly table use with large bits the MLCS is a better value. The M12V is most likely a better router but the free stuff supplied with the MLCS Marvel 60 router makes it a beeter buy given that the price difference is $4 more for the Marvel 60 plus free shipping! On the other hand if a purchaser does not need the template guides or bits I really can not see any reason tochoose the Marvel 60 over the M12V. This is just my first impressions of the Marvel 60 router and not yet having used it in it's primary application for which I purchased it my opinion may change. After I have used the router for a few projects I'll be posting a more thorough review on my website and a new topic here with a link to there. I hope this is helpful to those members considering purchase of a medium priced big HP router.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks Corey. I have read the review and am still looking. That M12V is still a good looking unit. The only thing is if I can find out if Hitachi has a base plate or if someone makes a base plate so I can use PC template guides as I said before I am planning on getting the PC dovetail unit. The main reason I was looking at the Marvel 60 was because they already had the clear base and template guides made for it. Thanks again Corey. I appreciate the info.


Bernie

[Wes Bischel]

Not the same router, it doesn't have the VS built in but uses a seperate external spped control. The 179.00 model has the soft start and the VS built in. Big difference for the $40.00.

Corey

OK, the email I got didn't refernce the VS model.

Wes

[Lee DeRaud]

Not the same router, it doesn't have the VS built in but uses a seperate external spped control. The 179.00 model has the soft start and the VS built in. Big difference for the $40.00.

If it's intended to be used in a table rather than freehand, the external speed control (for $40 less) doesn't sound like that bad a deal.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Lee,

This unit for me this unit will be more for freehand as I have a Craftsman variable speed 2 hp. router in my table. It has the 1/4" and 1/2" collets. Right now it is as I said before a toss up between the MLCS Marvel or the Hitachi M12V. I was just hoping someone already had one because I can't find any reviews except what Corey found.

Bernie

[Bernie Weishapl]

I forgot to ask also on the Hitachi M12V it says it has a 1/4" collet for 1/4" bits. I have talked with a couple of friends that said that I had better plan on getting 1/2" bits because those collets don't hold. They said the bits turn in them no matter how tight they get them. I noticed that the Marvel 60 has a 1/4" collet and a 1/2" collet. From the sounds of it this would be a better way to go. I can't afford to spend $169 on a router and not have the 1/4" collet work since I have about 85 different 1/4" bits. I wanted to do some raised panels but doing some research it says it would crowd my 2hp a little to much or is that true? Doing raised panels and would like to do some plunge routing was the main reason for the extra horses. Thanks again for all the help.


Bernie

[Corey Hallagan]

Not sure I understand Bernie, but the Hitatchi and the Marvel both will accept both 1/4 and 1/2 inch bits. The Marvel has a 1/4 collet and the Hitatchi has a 1/4 adapter for the 1/2 collet. Is that what you are thinking will not work propertly. I haven't heard that specifically. I know alot of guys are using them. If there was to be a problem why don't you use your craftsman for 1/4 stuff that you have now and when you need to do a plunge or High Power operation, get yourself a 1/2 bit for that application. That way your 1/2 inch collection can grow slowly.

Corey

[Larry Reimer]

Bernie, One of the routers I have is that Hitachi M12V, yes it has an adapter to accept the 1/4: shank router bits. I've not had trouble with that allowing the bit to slip. That's not the router I'd pick up to do raised panels (I've got other choices) but I'm sure it would do them. I think the Hitachi is a very good router for the money they ask for it.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks guys. A couple of friends said they had problems getting them to tighten down on the quarter inch bits. It may be the adaptor is defective. I told them to get a hold of Hitachi and ask. Just curious if any one else had a problem.

By the way Larry what router would you recommend for raised panel or rail & stile bits? I have to keep the price under $200 or me and the dog may be fighting for a sleeping place in his house, if you know what I mean.

Bernie

[George Summers]

If you install the ¼" adaptor in the Hitachi correctly, the bits will not slip. There is a through slot in the adaptor and a through slot in the collet. The two must be matched up. If the slot in the adaptor is not lined up with the slot in the collet, they will not tighten correctly and the bit will slip.

George