Alternatives to mortise and tenon for small furniture build?

[scott vroom]

Lots of ways to skin that cat. I'm thinking of using my 690 w/plunge base and edge guide. The design calls for thru tenons on the lower stretchers so I was thinking I might pick up a 2" spiral bit and make multiple passes to depth. Think that would pose any problems?

I was watching Marc Spagnuolo's vid in which he cuts the tenons using a dado blade. I've got a tenoning jig for the TS but frankly the dado method looks much easier (once the blades are set up). Anyone try this method?

This is my first furniture piece in many years, and my first effort at an A&C design. My wife is quite fond of the style and wants me to build a houseful....I'm going to be making lots of mortises, many through thick stock. I'm tempted to just get a quality hollow chisel rig. If a bench top most likely a General 75-050T, however I've read that for cutting deep mortises in oak a higher power floor model might be a better choice. The Powermatic 1791264K w/Tilt is around $1,275 delivered...it's something I'd get a lot of use out of.

[Jeffrey Martel]

Lots of ways to skin that cat. I'm thinking of using my 690 w/plunge base and edge guide. The design calls for thru tenons on the lower stretchers so I was thinking I might pick up a 2" spiral bit and make multiple passes to depth. Think that would pose any problems?

I was watching Marc Spagnuolo's tenoning vid in which he cuts the tenons using a dado blade. I've got a tenoning jig for the TS but frankly the dado method looks much easier (once the blades are set up). Anyone try this method?

Use a scrap board or piece of ply as a backer for the through mortise. Take a lot of passes. But it should be fine.

I don't like the dado method, myself. I use a homemade tenon jig from Woodgears. About the same speed as the dado blade method, and I get better results. The dado method perfectly centers the stock though, since you flip the piece. Doesn't give as clean of sides to the tenons as I'd like though.

[scott vroom]

I found a Whiteside 2" depth upcut spiral, 3 flute. How do I avoid tear out? If I start the cut on the exposed side I'm likely to get splintering from the upcut bit, and the same when I punch through the other side. Would it make sense to make the first pass with a downcut spiral, then switch over to the upcut?

Or would a backer prevent blowout on the exit hole?

[Mike Heidrick]

Domino is pretty portable.

[Mike Schuch]

If you are goinng to make a lot of arts and crafts furiture I can't see not buying a mortiser. I bought a cheap Harbor freight mortiser for drilling holes for balisters on a staircase hand rail I made. I made my own tilt base for the HF mortiser. It did a remarkably good job drilling square holes in hard maple after I sharpened the chissels. I would expect either of the 2 mortisers you mentioned to do an even better job than my heap HF mortiser.

A good work piece vice on an XY table makees lining up mortises much easier.

I use my radial arm saw with a dado blade to cut my tennons. I do own a good tennon jig for my table saw that I actually use some what frequently... I just have never used it for tenons. Personally I would rather have my tennon be a bit rough rather than machined perfectly smooth so the glue has something to bite into. A dado blade, a tennoning jig or a router, I don't think it really matters they will all get the job done nicely.

Lots of ways to skin that cat. I'm thinking of using my 690 w/plunge base and edge guide. The design calls for thru tenons on the lower stretchers so I was thinking I might pick up a 2" spiral bit and make multiple passes to depth. Think that would pose any problems?

I was watching Marc Spagnuolo's vid in which he cuts the tenons using a dado blade. I've got a tenoning jig for the TS but frankly the dado method looks much easier (once the blades are set up). Anyone try this method?

This is my first furniture piece in many years, and my first effort at an A&C design. My wife is quite fond of the style and wants me to build a houseful....I'm going to be making lots of mortises, many through thick stock. I'm tempted to just get a quality hollow chisel rig. If a bench top most likely a General 75-050T, however I've read that for cutting deep mortises in oak a higher power floor model might be a better choice. The Powermatic 1791264K w/Tilt is around $1,275 delivered...it's something I'd get a lot of use out of.

[Jim Dwight]

I've never had any splintering from an upcut bit that wouldn't be covered in the final joint - easily - on the top side. Bottom side is another matter. You could have a "blow out" - major chipout - when you push the bit through the other side. I have only done a few through mortises. You don't need them for strength with modern glues. Cutting from both sides of the piece will avoid the blow out. A backer piece should. Cutting the part a bit oversize so you can just cut off the chipout is another option. You can also "fake-it". Have a shallow mortise on the outside you plug with a fake tenon end.


In large pieces of wood - like a bed rail - I like to use a dado blade on my RAS. For little pieces, I like to use a home made jig that slides on my rip fence. I have a micro-positioner for my fence so I nibble the material away.


My tenon cutting got a lot better when I got a shoulder plane. Mine is a Stanley, a Veritas may be better (but is pricier). With a dado blade cut, the surface won't be very smooth. But a shoulder plane can clean that up. It also lets you fine tune the shoulders. My tenon jig gives me smooth enough cheeks but minor variations in stock thickness tend to turn into tenon variations in thickness. I can also fix that with the plane. I tried too long to get good fitting tenons without it. A sharp chisel can be used for trimming but is much more challenging to use than a good plane.

A slip tenon, a mortise in both pieces and a separate tenon you insert, is easier, especially with routed mortises with rounded ends. You just take a piece of scrap, doesn't even need to be the same wood, and plane it to thickness and round off the edges on the router table. Then cross cut to length. Avoids the tenon and shoulder trimming. Only disadvantage is you get to hear the router howl for twice as long.

[mike mcilroy]

+1 Drill and chisel.
I use this method because I'm too cheap for the mortiser and there's really no room for one. If you drill with a forstener bit and a backer board on the drill press table there will be no tear out

[Kent A Bathurst]

I was watching Marc Spagnuolo's vid in which he cuts the tenons using a dado blade. I've got a tenoning jig for the TS but frankly the dado method looks much easier (once the blades are set up). Anyone try this method?

This is my first furniture piece in many years, and my first effort at an A&C design. My wife is quite fond of the style and wants me to build a houseful....I'm going to be making lots of mortises, many through thick stock. I'm tempted to just get a quality hollow chisel rig. If a bench top most likely a General 75-050T, however I've read that for cutting deep mortises in oak a higher power floor model might be a better choice. The Powermatic 1791264K w/Tilt is around $1,275 delivered...it's something I'd get a lot of use out of.

Hey - Vroom Dude[tm]

You hit my wheelhouse. A+C is my schtick - I have my ow2wn version with common design cues - square spindle sides, through-tenons, etc. I have done enough for more than a house - but it is not all in my house.

The qty of M&T work is even bigger than you think:

1. Get used to the tenoning jig [I assume it is like the std Delta design?] Very easy to use, and - best part - you cut mortises first, and then set the tenon jig at a rough size - cut-rotate-cut. Check fit. Adjust jig. Rinse. Repeat. You sneak up on a perfect-fitting tenon, centered in the rail. There really is not more than seconds of setup time - even if one set you are on 12/16" rails, and the next on 13/16" or 1" or whatever.

2. "Lots of mortises" - "thick stock" - "houseful" - "get a lot of use out of" - "PM 719". All of those phrases belong in the same sentence. Sorry to all, but the PM719 is a killer machine.


PM if you want detailed comments/discussion - been running mine for >12 years [non-tilt].

[Kent A Bathurst]

Or would a backer prevent blowout on the exit hole?

Sacrificial backer essential on thru-mortises, regardless of method. I use 1/2" mdf scraps, but whatever............

[scott vroom]

The Whiteside 2" spiral bit I was looking at is 1/2" cutting diameter. The tenon stock is 3/4" so that would leave only 1/8" shoulders....doesn't seem like enough, or is it OK? The alternative is to go with a 3/8" cutter, but those have a max 1-1/4" cutting depth so I'd have to flip my 1-7/8" legs over to complete the mortise....extra work. That mortiser is starting to look more attractive

[Kent A Bathurst]

That mortiser is starting to look more attractive

You will be assimilated.

Resistance is futile.

[scott vroom]

I'm wondering how many folks use a downcut spiral to start the cut then finish with an upcut? Seems that would solve the problem of tear out.

[Jim Andrew]

Scott, look at the G0540 horizontal boring machine from Grizzly. I bought one on recommendation from someone on the creek, and it is cheap and works well as a slot mortiser. I also ordered some end mills to use for cutters. Have only tried it on some cuts, have yet to build any M&T projects as yet. But now I can when ready. Price is 450 plus 79 shipping. The instructions have set up, and it is very accurate after you align the cutter to the table. I need to get better at judging 1/4" depth changes, or I will be breaking some cutters. But it will cut more than 1/4" till the cutter is broken. Very simple machine.

[roger wiegand]

Almost every failed joint I've ever worked on in repairing old furniture has been a doweled joint; this has left me forever distrustful of dowels. I've used biscuits in low stress joints with no problems for decades, but I wouldn't use them where structural strength is required. For strength and longevity it's really hard to beat the mortise and tenon, and they just aren't that hard to make. Arts and Crafts is more than a visual style, it is an approach to working. One of the most common ways commercial A&C furniture fails is in picking up some of the visual cues, but using shortcut methods and losing the subtlety of appearance that comes along with authentic methods. From a structural point of view it's really hard to beat a well-fitted M&T drawn tight with a peg. Glue is pretty much superfluous in that case.

As to cutting mortises a mortising machine is nice and can save a lot of time on a production run, but drilling out the waste on a drill press and finishing with a sharp chisel is both quick and satisfying. For just one tables worth of joints it's probably faster than setting up a router jig or a mortising machine. Unless you're making a lot of joints the mortiser is a nice but not necessary machine. (That said, I have one and use it a lot)

[Jeffrey Martel]

I'm wondering how many folks use a downcut spiral to start the cut then finish with an upcut? Seems that would solve the problem of tear out.

I just use an upcut and have no problems with tearout. If you take a very shallow first pass, at like 1/16" or 1/8", you shouldn't have a problem.