Lathe Bed Extension

[Mike Goetzke]

A few months back I was almost ready to purchase the 18" bed extension for turning bowls on my PM3520B lathe so as not to have the tool handles hit the ways and so I could face the cut better. I then saw a great post here of how to make your own extension and was going to give it a go. But, after thinking about it and gaining more knowledge (forums/videos) I'm re-thinking this again:

1) If I'm fine with the 20" capacity of my lathe couldn't I just slide the headstock to the right enough to give the banjo/tool rest some room and still be able to work off the end of the lathe no ways in the way?

2) I've seen experienced bowl turners have a few bowl gouges with different grind angles. Using steeper angle for the bottom. As I recall my handles hit the ways as I transition in the middle from the lip to bottom. Will more gouges solve my issue?


Thanks,

Mike

[Dennis Collier]

I don't have an answer for you since Im trying to teach myself how to turn bowls. Im just curious though, if your problem is that your tool handle is hitting the bed, how does adding an extension help?

[Robert Edington]

I agree with Dennis's observation. I have a 3520. I always slide my headstock to the right when turning bowls. I leave just enough room for the tool rest. Then I just stand at the end of the lathe and turn.
RP

[Mike Goetzke]

I don't have an answer for you since Im trying to teach myself how to turn bowls. Im just curious though, if your problem is that your tool handle is hitting the bed, how does adding an extension help?

The 18" extension for my lathe can be mounted level with the lathe ways or at a lower height for outboard turning and comes at with a tool rest post extension. ( Linky )

Mike

[Mike Goetzke]

I agree with Dennis's observation. I have a 3520. I always slide my headstock to the right when turning bowls. I leave just enough room for the tool rest. Then I just stand at the end of the lathe and turn.
RP

So the 18" extension accessory mounted at the lower level is just for turning larger diameter pieces?

[Dwight Rutherford]

I turn off the end of my lathe for platters, bowls and hollow forms. Before buying an extension, slide your headstock down and give it a try. No need for different gouges with shorter handles. You may want to get a second bowl gouge ( bottom feeder) that is ground at about 70-80 degrees. This will help you turn the transition at the bottom of your bowl.

[Reed Gray]

I stand at the end of my lathe to turn bowls. Even when the headstock is back a bit for turning larger bowls and leaving some room for the tailstock, my tool handles never come close to the ways. I hold my tools more level, and roll the flutes over to 45 to 90 degrees. I use the same technique on the outside as well. I have a number of You Tube clips up, just type in robo hippy.

robo hippy

[David Delo]

Agree with Dwight, just slide the headstock to the right leaving enough room for the banjo and you can drop your handle to the floor if you want. My handles are 16" long but even when finishing off the bottom of a bowl, I've really not had a problem with the bed ways getting in the way. I turn the inside of a bowl almost always off the end of the machine. Just way more comfortable and easy for me but usually just finish off the bottom with the headstock in its normal left side position so I can use tailstock support until the last little nub.

Personally, I like the bed extension and like what it adds to the machine. Currently a number of vendors have 15% off PM accessories so now is the time to get one if that's what you want.

I've had the extension in both positions and it works well either way but I like the upper position better. 2 reasons the upper position works better for me are 1.) the extension is in the way of my leg & knee in the lower position when using my hollowing rig and 2.) the upper position cuts down on the number of times I need to take the tailstock off when finishing the bottom of a bowl. Just slide it back onto the extension and there's plenty of room to work and not worry about hitting the live center with your elbow. As you see in the 2nd picture with the headstock even with the bed extension joint, there would still be plenty of room to drop your handle. Hope this helps.
Carter Bowl Rest 5.jpgUP Bed Ext 1 3520B.jpg

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Mike: if you're happy with the swing of your lathe, and the spindle capacity works for you, why buy spend the bucks for the extension? As Reed describes, rolling the flute slightly should allow you to raise the handle enough to easily clear the ways. I turn bowls off the end of my lathe using a similar approach with no problems. It's a lot easier on my back than stretching out to get the handle all the way over to the right...but, if you need to turn larger diameters than your standard setup allows, the extension is a good, stable alternative to an outboard toolrest setup...
I know turners who grind their gouges to three different profiles to make the cuts from rim to the bottom - I've seldom found it necessary with the grind I use, but I do have a 70 degree traditional/bottom feeder style grind gouge handy for the bottom when needed. It also comes in handy for the exterior of bowls in figured woods where tear out is a problem.

[Mike Goetzke]

Thanks for the great info. I can see from the replies that my original thoughts of needing the extension bed to turn outboard was incorrect.

Thanks,

Mike

[Reed Gray]

One advantage of the bed extension in the second picture that David shows above is that you don't have to straddle the lathe legs when you are moving down the outside of the bowl, or straddle them as you rotate through the transition and across the bottom of the lathe. The lowered position makes me think about shin damage like the trailer hitches on the back of pick up trucks...

robo hippy

[Pat Scott]

Maybe I'm an exception, but I never turn bowls with the headstock on the right side of the ways - there is no need for it, and it's actually a hindrance. If the bowl is at the end of the ways, the tendency is to stand more in front of the bowl. If you try to make a continuous cut from rim to bottom, the tool handle has to swing around. It can only swing just so far before coming into contact with your body. So you stop the cut, shuffle your feet to stand in a new position, then try and pick up the cut again. If you keep your feet planted, the tendency is to lean your body to make room for the handle. Now your body and arms are at an awkward angle or position.

I keep the headstock in the standard position on the left side of the ways. Start the cut by leaning slightly over the ways, but now when the tool handle swings around it is free to do so in one motion from start to finish because my body is already out of the way.

Mike if your tool handle is hitting the ways, lift it up. It really is that simple. I see some turners create a big high arc when cutting the inside of a bowl. They start off level, drop the handle way down so the tip rides high throughout the curve, then drop the tip down into center to finish off. There is no need to do this, and a lot of times this is done in an attempt to keep the bevel touching throughout the cut.

I'm a student of Glenn Lucas and Mike Mahoney. I use a 45 degree gouge from the rim to 1/3 down. Then I switch to a 55 degree gouge the rest of the way. If needed I pick up a traditional grind for the final cut at the bottom, but it still has a 55 degree bevel. On deep narrow bowls you might have to change to 60 or 65 degrees. I think 70 to 80 degrees is too blunt for most open bowls. The tendency with this angle is you have to have the handle much more perpendicular to the cut, and you end up dragging the tool across the wood in an effort to keep the bevel touching.
GL bevel angles Tormek.jpg GL bevel angles Oneway.jpg

I have a Powermatic also, and I'm fine with the 20" capacity. The majority of the salad bowls that I sell are in the 11"-14" range. A 15" to 20" bowl is nice to look at, but from a utility or useful point of view they take up a lot of space on the kitchen table. Most people are not looking to buy a 20" salad bowl.

[Reed Gray]

Pat, I am not getting some thing, and had to think about it for a bit. By 'right side of the ways' for headstock placement, are you meaning at the left end of the lathe as you are facing it? Right side meaning on the tailstock end? I was thinking at first you were talking about how some lefties will stand on the right side of the lathe because it works better for them that way.

When standing at the tailstock end of the lathe, I don't have to bend slightly over the ways to start any of the cuts, and if I position my feet and body correctly, I can make one continuous cut from rim to center by pivoting my body only, and don't run into my body with the handle. No hindrance at all Even on larger bowls, if I have to reposition my body stance, it is no more of a problem to pick up the cut again than it is when you switch from your 45/45 gouge to a BOB (bottom of bowl) gouge. Same with turning the outside. I think in both cases, when starting the cut, we hold our arms and the tool out away a bit from our bodies and as the cut progresses, we end up with the tool in closer to our bodies. This does allow for a greater arc in the body motion as we cut.

Check out my Bowl Turning Ergonomics clip on You Tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djX9vRlkcK8

robo hippy

[Pat Scott]

Reed I had trouble explaining myself. By right side, I meant tail stock end.

In your video you are standing in (what I would call) the correct position. Meaning you are off to the side of the bowl, even though the bowl is at the end of the lathe. If you were to stand more in front of the bowl (with your back to the camera), this is where you will have problems trying to make a continuous cut from rim to bottom. That's what I was trying to convey. Some turners think it's easier to have the headstock positioned on the tailstock end, but then they stand right in front of the bowl. If you stand off to the side, then as you show, you can keep your feet in place and just shift from right foot to left.

I stand the same way as you, with my right foot forward and shift from one foot to the other. But I do this with the headstock at the opposite end. As I watched your video, I thought to myself there is little difference from what you're doing and what I do, except we stand in different spots. You mentioned Stuart Batty must have learned on a long bed lathe, I did too.