special tail stocks

[roger oldre]

Hey Folks! I have been a production turner for a long time. I have occasionally read in posts where it is mentioned shortcomings concerning tail stocks in specific. I understand that most turners have more of an artistic bent and take their time on each piece but some have still voiced a desire to make something easier or faster.
Drilling: 1. Quill travel too short for deep holes 2. Hand cranking in and out to clear chips for drilling.
I am wondering if there is a market for an add on or replacement tail stock that might be helpful. I have modified a couple tail stocks and made a few as well.
For drilling deep holes.
lever action for drilling
lever action locking for production turning
A tail stock for consistent hollowing of bowls.
A tail stock press for assembling pens.
Most manufactured tail stocks could be modified with a bolt on kit I think that could encompass all of these.
I am only one turner with a few instances of someone asking what they could do. I am looking for a broader base of wisdom before I spend time on something that is a dead end.
below is a video of the bowl scoop on the table and in action its crude but it does work extremely well.



Any input is greatly appreciated.

[roger oldre]

here is the vid of the TS in action

[Grant Wilkinson]

It's an interesting way to produce consistent results. Is it fair to say that the tool you made to mount on your tailstock, the one that hollows out the interior of the bowl, is limited to one size bowl? It looks like it turns through an arc that is not adjustable at all. So, if the bowl had straighter sides, say, like a vase, this tool would not work?

[Reed Gray]

If I had a request for a bunch of bowls exactly the same size, maybe. I have turned a lot of bowls, and can do it as fast, or faster freehand, and no tool set up required. Every bowl I turn is a different size as well. I think of a tool like that more for spindle work duplication. Who knows though?

robo hippy

[roger oldre]

Grant the tool is adjustable for both diameter and depth from 1" rad to 10"To a certain extent I can do a hollow where the rim of the bowl is smaller than the widest part of the inside and I can do straight sides with a perfectly round bottom as well. with modification I could do vases with long deep straight sides and round out the bottom as well. the bowls in the video are kiln dried ash not green. I have done many birds nests for the same fellow from green wood they cut much easier. Reed this vid wasn't made for an evaluation of speed. for spindle work I use this

[Grant Wilkinson]

Interesting. Tks, Roger.

[Scott Hackler]

Interesting videos. The spindle one reminds me of a baseball bat machine. For your purposes the jigs work well but for the application of the hobby turner or even the production bowl turner, I don't think there would be a market. What your basically doing is the same as a CNC lathe without the CNC moving the cutter. While great for exact copies, the bowl "factories" produce 1000's of wooden bowls each day and they use automated machining (not necessarily CNC). The production bowl turner (Glenn Lucas, Mike Mahoney) can whip out a bowl of very similar size and shape...with a regular bowl gouge.... faster than most of us can chuck up the blank! And the hobby turner wouldn't be able to justify the expense of a jig to help them make the 1-50 bowls a year.

I think that there is a distinct different between hand turned and jig reproduced. While I would definitely want a jig or duplicator if I had to reproduce 100 balusters to exact copies.... I would only in the loosest terms call that process "turning", just because there is no turning skill involved with a jig. This, of course is no disrespect to you or anyone who uses a jig, but a respect to the craftsman that learns the skills needed to turn with hand tools. The difference is, to me, between "hand made" and "machine made".

Again, if I had a massive order for a bunch of the same thing... I would be able to justify a Vega duplicator or modify a metal lathe.

[roger oldre]

This thread was started because someone asked me to repair their tail stock. it had broken a couple times and was pretty worn. I looked up the jet tail stock and it was about 200 for a new replacement. I figured I could make his existing tail stock work better for him for about the same amount.

Thanks Scott for your valued position. I do have to differ with you on several points unless you would like to clarify to a more definitive extent what turning truly is. I turn one offs to thousands of pieces in a run. I don't consider myself an artist just a plain old wood turner. Ive been around a while (turning since the early sixties) and learned a few tricks. Your first two sentences was the kind of information I was asking for. The rest was a little needlessly pointed, but you did bring it up Respect isn't what gets one in front of papal processions or building orthodox altar screens. product does! Providing solutions to problems that others can't gets the contract. I wasn't trying to shove this down anyone's throat. I just asked if someone could use something like XYZ. You can't. Give me a call when you get those big orders. I can do better than the vega lol!The metal lathe in the vids was converted in 1949 by my dad. He did several others and we corroborated on sever other specialty woodworking machines. I did the big lathe for him when I was fourteen. capacity 2' diameter 16' between centers. Two of my customers wanted to trade their vegas in to me to offset the cost of me converting a lathe for them. I designing and building machines is my bread and butter. Is the "hand made" worth more than the "machine made"? Is the quality better? I am not saying people wont pay more for "hand made" but if it is of the same quality it really isn't worth more, there may be sentimental reasons but increased higher value? Someone has to be pretty full of themselves to say that because they touched it or did it a certain way it has more value.

[Scott Hackler]

Roger,

My comments were not meant to offend you and if it did I do apologize.

I was only stating my personal opinion between something that can (and is made) mostly, by use of a duplicating jig or automated machines and those items made 100% by the use of hand tools using the craftsman's acquired skills. Like I had said in the previous comment, if there is a production need for a bunch of the exact same item then a person would certainly be smart to use a mechanical way to duplicate them...and quickly. And in the grand scheme of things a baluster or table leg that was jig made or turned by use of hand tools is likely not worth any different than the other. But for me, a machine made bowl, vase, candlestick, ect...in my opinion IS worth less than a hand made version. The artistic expression is removed when the movements of a cutter are dictated by a jig, template follower or CNC machine. I do believe there is definite skill in designing the contraption to achieve the end results, but when it comes to altering the wood, almost anyone could operate such a jig or device with little to no turning skills. Shoot, I would like to play around with that little spindle maker! I have even contemplated making or buying a ball jig, because some folks have requested decorative balls for larger bowls I have made. I am NOT interested in making balls and would like a quick way to churn them out so I could get back to turning. The difference is that the ball would sell for $10 and the bowl that would sell for $100+. Why is that? One is the function of the piece but a majority of the price difference is the machine vs hand made.

Again, I do see the value of your devices. If you know how to grab a gouge and go after a block of wood and make something by hand... awesome. Sounds like you can and have been turning for quite a long time. Congrats on finding a time saver for the boring mass orders!

Personally though, I take exception to someone (for example) working at a baseball bat plant.. making bats all day long....calling themselves a woodturner. They are a button pusher or machine operator, not a woodturner and I guarantee their bats would bring more money that one I made with hand tools!

[Ryan Mooney]

Interesting setup, always neat to see how other folks are doing things.

The bowl hollower idea is sort of a close kin to a lot of captured hollowing setups, there might be some opportunities there since those are arguably some form of modified tail stock. How big that market is I don't know (I keep looking at them but can't justify the price so will likely eventually build one if I get motivated enough).

The most obvious mod that you mentioned that seems like it would be easy/useful is the quick release for things like small spindles and pens - there was a thread on here the other day talking about speed efficiency of turning pens without ever turning off the lathe. Your spindle video seemed to mirror that theory pretty closely.