[OP]
Member
100_0605 (640x480).jpg100_0606 (640x480).jpg100_0610 (640x480).jpg100_0611 (640x480).jpg100_0612 (640x480).jpg
These are pic's of a project for the LOML. This is my first attempt at hand saw dove tails. Let me know how I might improve. The wood is 100 year old pine form a 1920's house, with some mixed in with pine from a 1936 church. I am pretty sure it is heart pine, but if it isn't, it's still hard as a bullet.
Thanks,
Joe
You never get the answer if you don't ask the question.
Joe
Member
It looks to me like the center of the side is bowing outward, which is why the center dovetails don't fit so well. Side could be flattened with a hand plane, bringing everything true.
At least that would be my approach.
Contributor
My first guess is you chopped out the waste. There is nothing wrong with chopping the waste, it is just a bit tricky, especially with softwoods like pine. Even if it has had a century of hardening history.
Your scribed lines look a little undercut. If you chop out the waste, chop away from the line and then pare to the line. Recently my skill with a fret saw has improved enough to saw then pare.
The fit between the pins and tails looks pretty good in all but one or two places. It doesn't matter whether you start with pins or tails as long as what is cut first is square where it needs to be. For me, this means tails first. Since my problem is getting out of square when rip cutting the tails at an angle. This allows the tails to be checked and corrected for square before cutting the pins. Then sawing straight down at an angle isn't as much of a challenge for me. Many find it to work better the other way around.
Like so many things, time and patience become your teacher.
Sometimes making a few quick practice joints one after the other can help to locate areas needing improvement. Use some inexpensive wood and make some single or two tailed joints. When it is assembled, cut it off near the joint. Number them and set them aside. After a few, look at them and see if they have some of the same problem spots. This may be able to help you with sawing to the line or not getting too close to the base line when chopping with a mallet.
If what Chris noticed is correct, it is darn nigh impossible to get dovetails to go together and look good without square, flat stock.
There is also cutting the pins & tails a little proud and planing to level. This helps some.
Not sure of your orientation, my choice is to put the tails on the vertical pieces. Others may choose to do it with pins on the vertical.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
[OP]
Member
Chris,
You are correct they were flat and in line until the humidity went from 20% to 95%. What about clamping into place?
Jim,
I chose to put the tails on the vertical for, what I perceive to be stronger locking when I put the shelves in. Maybe not!
I have done some butterfly's before, while helping to build shed's, with pretty good success. I figured I was biting off more than I needed to.
That comes with the learning process as well.
Thanks,
Joe
You never get the answer if you don't ask the question.
Joe
Contributor
If the shelves sit on the floor or a stand it likely won't matter. My fear when it is mounted on a wall is the weight on the bottom shelf might make it loosen and fall off.I chose to put the tails on the vertical for, what I perceive to be stronger locking when I put the shelves in. Maybe not!
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
Joe
The one thing I can see that might make a difference is to provide better support closer to the work when cutting. That is, don't have the boards sticking up so much above the bench or the vise. I found that if the workpiece was held solidly and supported right up to where I was cutting (within an inch of the base line) the easier and more accurately I could cut. Yours is sticking up a long ways. That may be necessary due to the length of the stock, but you could always back up the work piece with something like a box or a brace clamped to the bench.
Apart from that, you did good for your first dovetails.
Darrell
Wood Hoarder, Blade Sharpener, and Occasional Tool User
[OP]
Member
Darrell,
Thank you. I will have to fix a way to work a little higher due to back problems.
Hey, It might be time for that Moxon vise. I will have to see what the frugal wife has to say.
Jim,
This will be a stand alone unit. Thanks for the enlightenment. I will learn, as we all have to.
You never get the answer if you don't ask the question.
Joe
Contributor
Yes, for a first attempt at hand cut dovetails these are pretty good. Some of my early attempts required dowelling to keep them from falling apart or rattling.Apart from that, you did good for your first dovetails.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
If you look at pic 3 of five I think you may need to do a slight bit of paring to get a perfect fit. Were it my project, I would flatten as needed with a #6 or #7, and then finish the boards with seal coat. Seal coat (thinned shellac) will keep glue from penetrating or discoloring of the finished surface. I would then use a two part epoxy for the glue up, as epoxy will fill any small gaps with no loss of strength.Originally Posted by Joe Tilson
You should be able to clamp that flat using cauls. A piece of wood on top and on bottom of the board planed slightly convex and the board should be held flat while everything dries. Use wax paper to keep the cauls from marring the finished product or being glued in place.
You probably could then tune everything up with a smooth plane taking very shallow cuts and have very acceptable looking dovetails in my opinion.
Member
A simple Moxon vise can be built with pipe clamps and Borg/Scrap lumber for less than twenty bucks. While I love Benchcraftd hardware, not everything needs to be top drawer.
Member
For a first attempt they are fantastic!
Member
I keep some 4x6 (3 2x4s) under the bench to give it a height boost when needed. Works great to raise work up for sawing or mortise chopping.
Member
First try at dovetails, and you don't have any
dutchmen, fill wedges or 'character' flaws?
You related to Frank Klausz, by any chance?
Just glue up, you've probably got a good fit, already.
When I build like this, I try to get the same board
running all the way around, so all sides move together.
Getting laminated boards like this to 'behave' is beyond me.
Member
Joe I made a moxon vise for the same reason you have, my back. My work now sits about 6 inches higher and easier to work with. I just finished a set of dovetails and if they looked like yours I wouldn't be starting over tomorrow. With some planing yours look great. I would not have the courage to show mine.
Member
To improve your work,it is not good to try using hard pine,fir,or other "soft woods" that have very hard grains interspersed with soft in between. Too easy for the saw or especially the chisel to wander off. And,it's hard to scribe decently. Not a judgement on your dovetails,but just woods to avoid for that purpose.
Another way to improve your work: Work a lot!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote