Anyone heard from David Weaver?

[Prashun Patel]

I would argue that a little thicker skin is in order for both 'sides'.

I'm a relatively new woodworker, and haven't always known what I don't know. I've been corrected many times. While it smarts sometimes and hurts my ego every once in a while, the dialog left in its entirety (sans petulance and rudeness) is probably very useful to other newbies.

Similarly, I think the expert teachers also need some patience for we students. Discussions often devolve because the experts don't have patience for challenges or questions to their data or experience. Guys like David certainly owe us nothing to suffer these debates, but I humbly suggest that they'd do better to just disengage from individual threads instead of disengaging from the site as a whole.

[Brian Ashton]

This forum frequently has posts with thousands of views but only 10 or so people commenting. Those are not healthy stats. Add to that- good folks are departing. Red flags.

I believe forums have a life cycle similar to rivers: youthful, mature, old age, rejuvenated. SMC is in the old age stage; a small number of posters with high skill levels and few new posters. The new guys lurk because they love being fed, but they feel too inadequate compared to the members with high skill who frequently post. Those higher skilled folks tend to critique (*often unwittingly), and therefore people become afraid to post. Ultimately posts turn from "Here's what I'm building this week (photos)" to "Here's another very technical argument about something we have hashed out already but I love talking about (graphic data, photomicograph)."

Boom.

For an old age stream to rejuvenate, it has to meander back upon itself, ultimately cutting off an oxbow and creating a fresh channel where water flows more freely. The faster flowing water causes other parts of the river to follow suit, and soon you have a rejuvenated stream. *EDIT! This is not a reference to cutting off David or other members- I mean something must change to rejeuvenate and get the flow going. That could be something like getting rid of seldom-used subforums. Example- I am a boatbuilder. I teach boatbuilding. I think I have posted on the boatbuilding forum maybe four times. There are established boatbuilding forums for that. Maybe merge a few of these specialty categories to get more folks talking together instead of segregating them.

Perhaps that should become a new thread topic followed by asking people how to improve and why they don't post, especially begging lurkers to comment. I say this not negatively but because I see a need for it when so few are sharing and folks are leaving. We noticed David. How many did we not notice?

Or you could of just said. It's the internet, everything is regurgitated over and over and over... The old get bored and move on and new ones come in, get old and move on... In a couple years a few here will be having the very same conversation.

[Chris Hachet]

I would argue that a little thicker skin is in order for both 'sides'.

I'm a relatively new woodworker, and haven't always known what I don't know. I've been corrected many times. While it smarts sometimes and hurts my ego every once in a while, the dialog left in its entirety (sans petulance and rudeness) is probably very useful to other newbies.

Similarly, I think the expert teachers also need some patience for we students. Discussions often devolve because the experts don't have patience for challenges or questions to their data or experience. Guys like David certainly owe us nothing to suffer these debates, but I humbly suggest that they'd do better to just disengage from individual threads instead of disengaging from the site as a whole.

I am relatively inexperienced as well. However, not really sure why people would have a problem with the Creek...seems like most everyone here is fairly respectful and just wants to learn.

[Keith Outten]

There is always a small group of people who cannot accept an alternate point of view without becoming irritated, angry and often unfriendly. An individuals value to any conversation is reduced when this happens particularly in a Community like ours which is why it is important that we all remain friendly and respect our peers no matter what their level of expertise. A friendly atmosphere where everyone is welcome and encouraged to participate is the foundation of this Community and nothing is more important.

[Sam Murdoch]

Guys like David certainly owe us nothing to suffer these debates, but I humbly suggest that they'd do better to just disengage from individual threads instead of disengaging from the site as a whole.

Yes to this comment. I have been awed by the depths of David's knowledge and appreciative of his posts. I agree that it is a loss to Sawmill Creek that he has chosen to be silent. I too have been frustrated at times by some who just can't allow someone else a differing opinion. When threads start to unravel from discourse to didacticism I choose to disengage from the thread as Prashun suggests.

Too bad for us all that David has disengaged from the forum. If you are reading this David - all the best. Hope to hear from you again.

[Chris Griggs]

I've gotten to know David reasonably well over the past few years, and feel fortunate to call him a friend. I like to make fun of him sometimes for being "cranky", but in reality I can only echo what others have said, and say that he is indeed a kind and generous person. I've lost count of the number of things he has sent me on his own dime to try out and often to keep.

Anyway, for anyone interested, David has been putting a lot up on Youtube lately documenting his foray plane building. If you google "Making a Double Iron Beech Try Plane" you will find them.

I also felt a loss when Chris Griggs started to post less often, it been some time now and every once in a while hell pop in but he used to be here all the time.

Hi Judson. Kind of you to say. I'm doing well, still lurk around here a little, and still check my PMs. Work got a lot busier this year and on top of that I decided to start taking some classes at the University I work for. Leaves very little time for posting and even less time for actual woodworking. I hope to get to more regular woodworking again at some point, but it won't likely be in the near future.

[Brian Holcombe]

Chris, just when you thought you were out, they pull you back in!

[Chris Hachet]

I've gotten to know David reasonably well over the past few years, and feel fortunate to call him a friend. I like to make fun of him sometimes for being "cranky", but in reality I can only echo what others have said, and say that he is indeed a kind and generous person. I've lost count of the number of things he has sent me on his own dime to try out and often to keep.

Anyway, for anyone interested, David has been putting a lot up on Youtube lately documenting his foray plane building. If you google "Making a Double Iron Beech Try Plane" you will find them.



Hi Judson. Kind of you to say. I'm doing well, still lurk around here a little, and still check my PMs. Work got a lot busier this year and on top of that I decided to start taking some classes at the University I work for. Leaves very little time for posting and even less time for actual woodworking. I hope to get to more regular woodworking again at some point, but it won't likely be in the near future.

I am in the same boat in the taking classes thing. Woodworking works very well as a secondary interest for me....I coach college debate and am in the process of taking class.

[Chris Griggs]

Chris, just when you thought you were out, they pull you back in!

I shall vanish as quickly as I reappeared...

I am in the same boat in the taking classes thing. Woodworking works very well as a secondary interest for me....I coach college debate and am in the process of taking class.

My hope was that I would at least have some time to get a little better at turning this year, but studying mathematics after having not taken a math class in 10 years ended up taking up lot more time than I expected. Glad your managing to find some time for the hobby!

[Winton Applegate]

If I call your kid ugly, you're more than likely to punch me in the nose.

Nah . . . I'd let HIM punch you in the nose.

Ha, ha,
I could't resist saying that.
Not true.

Yah, I see what you mean.

If we all sat around the camp-fire at night in the beautiful African bush, I promise you we'd all be friends.

Sounds like something Hemingway would have said (on one of his better days). He also said "In Africa, what is true at first light may not be true by noonday". So . . . probably by noon your wife would have intensionally shot you with a water buffalo gun . . . but hey that was just the way his stories went.
I will say most of my antagonizing and contradiction is done with a twinkle in the eye and not too seriously. I do think I know about one or two things but I learn stuff when I find out I am wrong so . . .
I for one am willing to be thought a fool at least in woodworking chatrooms.
That and I wouldn't win too many arm wrestling bouts.

[Mel Fulks]

Winton, that actually seemed to make sense......gotta shorten cocktail hour.

[Winton Applegate]

Shaun,
Thanks for speaking up and we need more lurkers to participate vigorously.

Now
allow me to do what I do best, for good or bad, and comment from kind of an outside perspective on these woodworking chatrooms in general and on other chatrooms besides this one in particular.

make sure that accurate information would get into the hands of inexperienced woodworkers like me.

What has alway amused me is that so many people hate to read, or can't read because they fall asleep as soon as they start to read (which I hear a lot)
yet
they go to a forum like this and read to discover how to solve problems in their wood working. Or to learn woodworking which would be even more questionable.
Knowing full well, I would assume anyway, that some of the junk they are going to have to read through is going to be just that.

What I am getting at is a forum, chatroom, club what have you is :
MORE than just a place to go learn something . . . it is a place to tell stories, hear stories, bang the table and argue, even when you might know you are wrong or just for the sake of BSing.

A place to talk to other woodworkers, because you like the type of person they are, about things other than just woodworking. I like "rat holes"; gives a person a chance to learn about the other members.
For instance . . . this thread.

So Shaun getting back to your comment and I am talking more to the other members maybe than I am to you but using your comment as a spring board . . .
if people want accurate information there are quicker and more reliable resources to glean it. Woodworking stores that rent DVDs and or books, the local public library for same . . . which is where I learned a great deal for not much $ long before there were forums and there is the more serious investment in lasting and accessible knowledge : buy books and magazines and start a personal library and if you are lucky take classes.

So . . . I for one enjoy the accurate info but more than that I come here for the other stuff.
Too.

[Winton Applegate]

Winton, that actually seemed to make sense......gotta shorten cocktail hour

Ha, ha




I don't zackly know what you meant there but here are a few to pick from:

• What I just said is starting to make sense so ​that could be a sign you have had too much to drink.
• I may have had too much to drink and I should stop sooner from here on out.
• You missed something that would verify that what I said was BS but you were having cocktails and missed it.
  
• That I said we need to shorten cocktail hour . . . naw I can't even imagine myself saying that.

[Frederick Skelly]

Shaun,
Thanks for speaking up and we need more lurkers to participate vigorously.

Now
allow me to do what I do best, for good or bad, and comment from kind of an outside perspective on these woodworking chatrooms in general and on other chatrooms besides this one in particular.


What has alway amused me is that so many people hate to read, or can't read because they fall asleep as soon as they start to read (which I hear a lot)
yet
they go to a forum like this and read to discover how to solve problems in their wood working. Or to learn woodworking which would be even more questionable.
Knowing full well, I would assume anyway, that some of the junk they are going to have to read through is going to be just that.

What I am getting at is a forum, chatroom, club what have you is MORE than just a place to go learn something . . . it is a place to tell stories, hear stories, bang the table and argue, even when you might know you are wrong or just for the sake of BSing.

Talk to other woodworkers, because you like the type of person they are, about things other than just woodworking. I like "rat holes"; gives a person a chance to learn about the other members.
For instance . . . this thread.

So getting back to your comment and I am talking more to the other members maybe than I am to you but using your comment as a spring board . . .
if people want accurate information there are quicker and more reliable resources to glean it. Woodworking stores that rent DVDs and or books, the local public library for same . . . which is where I learned a great deal for not much $ long before there were forums and there is the more serious investment in lasting and accessible knowledge : buy books and magazines and start a personal library and if you are lucky take classes.

So . . . I for one enjoy the accurate info but more than that I come here for the other stuff.
Too.

Good points Win. I personally enjoy the whole gamut that you mention. I get alot of info here that I actually use too, in addition to the banter. I often ask for a check on an idea and the Community's answers often changes my course or save me time. As you mention, I read a lot of WW books for insight - just got Whelan's Making Traditional Wooden Planes today in the mail. But Im still learning to sort truths from fictions and appreciate it when more experienced guys can point out what might be innacurate info. For example, I learned a lot reading the saw hardness thread you mentioned in your first response to this thread.

Take care man. Keep us laughin'.
Fre

[Winton Applegate]

David is a true aficionado who generously provided solid info. A fine book could be done based on information he posted
here.

Hey thanks. As I often say I prefer my imagination to reality anyway so from now on I choose to imagine that David, hello David since I just learned you may be reading only but not posting, . . .
I choose to imagine that David is now taking a sit-baggetle and using the time to write a book.