Contributor
Shaun,Originally Posted by Shaun Mahood
I strongly disagree. In the ideal world, everybody gets treated equally.......nobody gets any special treatment regardless of their expertise.........everybody respects the rights of others to have a differing opinion....and those differing opinions are communicated in a respectful, civil manner.
David left on his own accord. There is nothing stopping him from returning if he chooses.
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
Member
I totally understand your position Ken, and have definitely seen the administrators here stand behind that stance.
It unfortunately leads to a lot more self imposed withdrawals of experts, and I've watched another formerly great forum where all the professionals and knowledgeable members have left due to a heavy skew towards the side of "all are equal".
I don't envy the job of forum administrators at all and know that there has to be a balance struck, and Sawmill Creek certainly falls on the more friendly and welcoming side because of the stance and choices of the administrators. I just wish it could also be a place where knowledgable experts could feel like their experience was always valued, as it is still the best place I've found on the internet for really interesting hand tool information.
Contributor
I would argue that a lot of "newbies"...and I detest that word and it's useage .....leave other sites because the "experts" are given special treatment or authority. I would also argue that more "less experienced or skilled" people leave a site where the "experts" rule the roost than "experts" leave sites where less experienced people are given equal treatment.
A real expert who is secure in him or her self isn't challenged by someone, regardless of their expertise, disagreeing with them.
But....that has nothing to do with David's departure or his return.
David left at his own wish .....and he can return in the same manner should he choose to do so.
Last edited by Ken Fitzgerald; 03-09-2015 at 6:25 PM.
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
Contributor
It does not take a huge leap of comprehension to figger out who is truly expert in their chosen topics, and who is pretty goldarn smart. And who is a sniper or pretender.
There are the experts that make sense to me, and some that sometimes don't. That's OK too. I listen to what they have to say, and think it through. The really remarkable thing is that there is no topic, however small the focus, that does not generate at lest 2 different methods, both of which work equally well - at least, at my skill level.
You really don't want some admin type slicing the gen pop up into experts and proles. And, if an expert finally gets exhausted by covering the same topic multiple times, and wants to retire to a forum populated only by experts, I can understand that. If they are under continual badgering by people they consider to be ankle-biters, then that provides more of an impetus.
When I started woodworking, I didn't know squat. I have progressed in 30 years - now I do know squat.
Contributor
Shaun and Kent,good work,thanks. Rather than a mere advocate of one type of sharpening,or an endorser of one brand
David is a true aficionado who generously provided solid info. A fine book could be done based on information he posted
here.
[OP]
Contributor
+1. I'll miss David. I like him and value his expertise.
Contributor
Its really quite amusing that this might be the most viewed thread of the year. Lets give it a break already.
Contributor
Get rid of a thread because it's popular?! TV executives who have engineered successful shows say that's a bad plan.
Contributor
Hi All,
I too appreciated the comments David made, and recognized that he knew a lot more than I do, possibly has forgotten more than I will ever know.
I do also remember one other thread where someone was obviously writing from theory but with not much experience, and he totally and openly rejected the view David and others possessed, a view based on a lot of experience on that exact subject that David and the others had.
The fellow repeated his view over and over as if it was the final source of wisdom and knowledge. The thread went on and on. You could sense the frustration build in David and the others who had a lot of experience. I guess such happened enough that David had enough of it. I can't blame him.
I will miss the sage advise that David often gave. I do agree that you have to weight the advise given with the knowledge of the poster. We have some incredible folks here, like George, and others. David was one of those.
Stew
Last edited by Stew Denton; 03-09-2015 at 10:37 PM.
[OP]
Contributor
I agree this can happen. I left another site for exactly that reason - got a big enough dose from one of their experts on the finishing forum that I gave up trying to get along and left. I have never once felt condescended to or embarrassed here at SMC. And when I arrived I knew NOTHING about hand tools.
Last edited by Frederick Skelly; 03-10-2015 at 6:59 AM. Reason: removed site name
Contributor
It is something that has an effect on all of us.'
Some more than others.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
Nah: got a ways to go! There is a thread on one of the UK woodworking forums that is now 20 pages, though it looks like it is losing steam. Deals with counterfeit tools, etc.
If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.
Member
I can understand this feeling of loss as I knew of a different guy "John Hamlett" on the MandolinCafe. If he had ever left that forum while I was building mandolins, I would have been devastated. There's always someone on every forum that will make it worth coming back everyday. It's like they should be paid to be a member. You just want to know their thoughts on everything.
I haven't been following the Neander forum long enough to see this but after this thread, I'm going to search for and read Davids threads. Sounds like he's the JH of this forum.
Member
I would suggest that it is not about insecurity or even annoyance, but more like a general feeling of wasting your time. It is not a trivial matter to type out good responses imparting hard won experience. To do so and have it not valued or have it swamped in sea of "I just started woodworking yesterday, but I read somewhere that ..." or worse, bad information, etc. just makes it seem like time could be better spent.
Debate and disagreement is fine and often leads to better understanding. But an attitude of "my ignorance is just as valuable as your knowledge" can get old pretty quick. Why bang your head against that wall?
~ Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the men of old; seek what they sought.
Member
Stew,I think I know the thread to which you referred. And,where is that person now? Gone from here. Vanished. Off to another and another forum,still trying without success,I hear from David,to persuade others to see things his way. No ongoing contribution at all to the knowledge base here.
Most people would have run muttering curses from my MAIN mentor in college (I met quite by happy accident!). Certainly,he was very hard on me. ANY false move or statement on my part,and I was an idiot! He still is very arrogant to this day. But,he HAD the goods. And in spades. And,as far as I was concerned,(and as far as Harvard was concerned,ultimately. He became later,the head of their Art Dept.),he had earned his stripes. I had sense enough to see that in 1960,young as I was,and tough it out for 3 years. Not always easy,either! He gave me the biggest contribution to my creative knowledge base,and I am forever grateful. My whole career was based on what I got from him. We are still in contact. If you want to learn something,and can luckily find someone to really learn from,stick with it and do not bellyache. I had to learn to see myself as the novice I really was in art before he began to sink in. I had skill,but needed help on what to do with it in design. I wish I could have stayed longer,but he was off to Harvard.
Now that I think about it,it was sort of a "Japanese" apprenticeship(without the actual beatings!).
David was most mild compared to my mentor. I just wish he'd have the opportunity to spend his life doing his favorite work,and learning all the time,as I had. Few do.
Last edited by george wilson; 03-10-2015 at 9:04 AM.
Posting Permissions
