How would you build this semi-rustic chair?

[Keith Pleas]

Spotted this chair in the Will Leather Goods store in Portland last weekend. I really liked the look of it, and I loved the soft finishing of the wood. Unfortunately I didn't actually sit in it, so I'm having to imagine it's comfortable.

How would you go about building this chair? The joinery is kind of hidden except for a couple of dowels visible at the tips of the armrests. And I can see that the legs were sawn - not laminated or steam bent.

If you've seen "plans" for a chair like that I'd appreciate a pointer, but my guess is that it's a custom design for them.

WillChair.jpg

[Kent A Bathurst]

Like any other chair - M&T joinery. Use wide 8/4 and a bandsaw to rough out the legs, then your set of Auriou rasps to shape them.

[Yonak Hawkins]

I'd rather see the webbing handled the same way in the back and the seat. That is, a self contained web seat dropped into a frame. Doesn't it seem odd they weren't consistent with the webbing plan ?

[Michelle Rich]

First..go sit in the chair..if it is uncomfortable, then you've saved your self a ton of work :-) Thru the years I have bought chairs, and then torn them apart to see how they worked, used them as templates for the ones i build. I find this one unusual, as everything has a curve EXCEPT the arms. If i were to make this, I'd put a curve on those too. Bandsaw, rasps, files and lots of sandpaper..enjoy the fun of making a cool chair.

[Keith Pleas]

First..go sit in the chair..if it is uncomfortable, then you've saved your self a ton of work :-) Thru the years I have bought chairs, and then torn them apart to see how they worked, used them as templates for the ones i build. I find this one unusual, as everything has a curve EXCEPT the arms. If i were to make this, I'd put a curve on those too. Bandsaw, rasps, files and lots of sandpaper..enjoy the fun of making a cool chair.

Sitting in it would mean a return trip to Portland (3 hours by car) - not out of the question because it's a great dog-friendly place to visit. I didn't think about actually buying the chair and tearing it apart - that's an interesting idea, but...

Now that you point it out, I also am not a fan of the straight (only) arms. Or as Yonak pointed out, that the leather webbing is different for the back and seat. I prefer the seat webbing, but it isn't immediately clear how to do that for the back. Oh wait...it just came to me...relieve the straps where the arm intersects, possibly using larger and fewer straps. And add a rail just below the top piece.

My eye had registered these design issues but my mind didn't kick in until you and Yonak mentioned them. So...I don't think I'm going to buy a $500 chair that I don't truly love just to deconstruct.

Auriou rasps...about $100 each...is there an HF equivalent?

[John Vernier]

Aside from the design issues already mentioned, I would add that if they used dowels in a visible joint (yuck!), they almost certainly used dowels everywhere - no surprise for a modern factory chair, but not great construction to be sure. Plus, I see significant grain runout issues on the front leg, and probably on the back as well. All of which is to say, that I don't think this is a well-built piece, and a careful woodworker could significantly improve on it by redesign and thoughtful wood selection. I would certainly save my $500 if I were you. You would be far better off spending some time and a little money on cheap wood for a rough prototype before building a finished chair. I think you have enough information in your photo to procede, especially if you can take some basic dimensions from another armchair you consider comfortable.

I don't know of any cheap rasps which are the equal of the handmade Auriou and Liogier tools. toolsforworkingwood.com has some rasps handmade for them in Pakistan which are a little cheaper, and I respect that company's commitment to quality, but I haven't used their rasps myself.

[Keith Pleas]

Aside from the design issues already mentioned, I would add that if they used dowels in a visible joint (yuck!), they almost certainly used dowels everywhere - no surprise for a modern factory chair, but not great construction to be sure. Plus, I see significant grain runout issues on the front leg, and probably on the back as well. All of which is to say, that I don't think this is a well-built piece, and a careful woodworker could significantly improve on it by redesign and thoughtful wood selection. I would certainly save my $500 if I were you. You would be far better off spending some time and a little money on cheap wood for a rough prototype before building a finished chair. I think you have enough information in your photo to procede, especially if you can take some basic dimensions from another armchair you consider comfortable.

My latest thought is to find a chair that is comfortable (locally!), and reproduce it in the style of the Wills chair but with that chair's dimensions. I understand the concept of doing a trial in something cheap, but...I have to say that I am not a patient person - I very much want to only build a finished piece. That said, my thought was to build 4 of these for a retirement cabin and the more I think about this, the more I'd rather get it "right".

For construction: I understand that doweling would not be considered a "fine" technique, but - in practical terms - is it really that much inferior to..biscuits, dominos, hand-cut m&t joints? The style of this chair is far less fine than typical FWW pieces, so a more rustic technique wouldn't be out of place.

Regarding the "thoughtful wood selection", I'd love to hear recommendations - especially for woods that might be more common in the PNW. And I would REALLY like to hear more about this runout issue. The components of this chair are all curved, so there has to be runout somewhere. Are there some engineering principles that I need to learn first? I would imagine that the joints would be the places where the least runout should occur - is the foot more important? I've attached an enlargement of the base of the chair - and I also note that there appears to be a major crack in the back just above the seat!
.WillChair2.jpg

I don't know of any cheap rasps which are the equal of the handmade Auriou and Liogier tools. toolsforworkingwood.com has some rasps handmade for them in Pakistan which are a little cheaper, and I respect that company's commitment to quality, but I haven't used their rasps myself.

I spent some time grovelling the 'net, and that certainly seems to be the consensus. You're right, the Gramercy rasps are about 1/2 the price of the Auriou (interesting to discover that Auriou "closed their doors" back in 2007 after more than 150 years - good to see they came back!). FWIW, several folks over the years mentioned the Oliver Kutzall carbide rasps (they called them files), but they ceased production 2 years ago. But I happened to talk to someone there today and they're going to have the full range available again by the end of this month - with a few minor changes, like including handles.

[John Vernier]

The thing about dowels - they have been used in commercial chairs for over 100 years, but chairs are high-stress furniture, and dowels breaking loose is the common mode of failure. I've re-glued any number of doweled chairs, and anyone who repairs furniture will probably tell you the same. You've probably heard that end grain wood does not make a strong glue joint the way long grain does. A round hole bored into a furniture leg for a dowel will always be 50% end grain surface, so there just isn't much dependable glue surface in such a joint. A mortise & tenon gives you much more glue surface area. The big Domino tool is supposed to be adequate for chair work, hopefully somebody can speak to that.

You are right that the curves of the chair's shape means some grain runout is inevitable. I would prefer to see runout above the seat level than below it, since the legs take most of the strain. The highest stress point is the joint between the seat and the rear legs - right where that crack is in the chair in your picture! When possible, I would look for lumber with gentle curves in the grain and take advantage of these for curved parts which need to be strong (I have been able to find simple curves to work to my advantage. S curved pieces may be a lot to ask).

A lot depends on how heavy you want to build your chairs, and what wood you use. The chair in your picture is pretty beefy, and it's wood strength may be just fine. If you get a chance to look at some of the more delicate examples of 18th-century chairs, you can see how they pushed the envelope of curved, thin ball-and-claw feet without introducing short-grain issues in stress areas - you can get away with a lot of apparent curvature if you plan carefully.

I taught a chair making class at a Community College in Southern California, and one student built a chair of Myrtle wood from Oregon. It seemed tough as nails, and had a lot of lively grain figure rather like olive wood. If I were still on the west coast (which, sadly, I am not), I would be looking for myrtle wood myself to try out on some projects.

[Michelle Rich]

you can try poplar (the kind with green heartwood) . I have made chairs with M&T & poplar & they are amazingly tough. Whodathunkit, eh? You could make a prototype with it and keep it for a relaxing chair in your shop :-) Dowels are tougher than folks give them credit for too..If I had to, because of a design issue, I would use them. (but sparingly). I have been using Nicholson Patternmakers rasps for the last century, and they are ok as far as I am concerned & they (#49 & 50) cost about $50 ea. Good luck on your build. Please post some pictures when you are done

[Keith Pleas]

you can try poplar (the kind with green heartwood) . I have made chairs with M&T & poplar & they are amazingly tough. Whodathunkit, eh? You could make a prototype with it and keep it for a relaxing chair in your shop :-) ... Good luck on your build. Please post some pictures when you are done

Thanks again for your wisdom! I will indeed post anything that I come up with...but don't hold your breath!