Sharpening for a novice - equipment selection.

[Archie England]

All good info thus far....

I have a Tormek (old green one): it taught me what sharp and repeatable results could look like. I have a low speed grinder: it works way faster than a Tormek; but I have damaged some edges by tempering it. That never happens with a Tormek. I struggle with consistent edge improvement with sandpaper; and, don't like how my paper wears unevenly, etc. This method really didn't take with me. Ceramic stones, OTOH, really do work for me. Once I learned how to free hand (thanks Chris Griggs), the Tormek standard for sharp got eclipsed!!! I love sharpening with water ceramics or with quality oil stones. For me, the mess is a bit more with water stones but I get a lot sharper, faster with water stones than with oil. And, my water stones cut/hone with a lot more tactile feel than my oil stones.

As mentioned above, you need coarse grinding material, medium, and fine. The methods, however, work mostly as well, though YMMV. Beware of fast grinders if you have a heavy touch. Beware of the Tormek if you're expecting fast results; and beware of all stones if you're expecting one stone to do it all. Every method has it's costs--both obvious and hidden. Pick the one that works for you. If you're near another Creeker, then head over and check out his/her available favorites. Seeing/experiencing these systems under the supervision of one who knows is so much better than rewatching a great youTube depiction.

Have fun!

[Andrew Pitonyak]

everything from jointer plane blades to 1/8" chisels...

Brian, you state that you set the bevel angle. May I assume that you are using a guide? Please enlighten me. Also, if you are using a guide, does it work well with a 1/8" chisel. Just curious.

[Brian Holcombe]

I do the 1/8" chisels by hand, I use a guide for everything larger.

[Winton Applegate]

I am reading these Roy Underhill books that I bought for my Kindle E-Reader.
First off, to get off topic right away, I would recommend buying them separately and or in paper form. The set is difficult to navigate by using the contents pages.
Other than that the Kindle version works great and I am having a great time reading them and savoring the experience.
You can also find these books in the local public library.

Roy gets all into the aspects of harvesting green wood off the stump and splitting it green etc. If you are never going to do that then you may want to borrow the books rather than buy. I will probably never work green wood, living as I do where there isn't much in the way of oaks etc., but I am an addict woodworking book reader and these were next on the list. Like I said . . . I paid for them and am having a great time reading them. He is a fun guy in print as he is on the TV screen.

OK what I wanted to say : two things . . . first I am going to be quiet about equipment and stay out of the way, for a change, and

any word of wisdom for a novice?

I am going to quote Roy . . . he has just put into words something I would have said here but he painted it much more vividly than I could have :
Roy said :
Since common plane irons work with their bevels down toward the wood, it is essential that this bevel be flat rather than convex. To see the problem with a convex bevel, put your index finger on the page and push it forward as though it were a plane iron. Unless your fingernails are much longer than mine the edge will not contact the page. This is exactly what happens with an ill-ground or dull plane iron.
end quote.

I would add . . . even on a microscopic level this is still true and relevant.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

Thanks everyone. This discussion consolidates my thinking. I'm going to just focus on sharpening plane blades and chisels for now. I am partial to water stones because I grew up watching my father and family members using them. Will be getting Shapton Pro 1000, 5000, and 8000 from toolfromjapan.com (the 8000 disappeared! ). A diamond plate to flatten these stones.

My shop is also my garage, which has a large utility sink I installed when we first moved in. Maybe I will build a cabinet next to it to serve as a sharpening station.

I am thinking of free hand sharpening. Is this not advisable for a novice?

[Thomas Schneider]

I first found out what sharp really was when I read about the "scary sharp" method of sharpening. I went and purchased paper from 60 grit all the way up to some ridiculously fine medium from Lee Valley. That along with the Lee Valley honing jig worked very well for me. The results were incredible and repeatable which is very important! But I soon grew tired of having to replace worn out paper so I moved on to water stones. The stones provided me with the same level or better of sharpness (using the same jig) without the recurring cost of the paper, but unlike you, I don't have a sink down in my shop and so I got fed up with the mess I made with the water stones. At about that time (about four years ago) on one of my way too many auction sites I saw a Tormek being sold. I had never heard of Tormek before and thought it looked neat! So I put in what I came to find out later was a ridiculously low bid and ended up winning it. I must say it took a while to work out all the nuances the Tormek has and get repeatable results, but I feel it was time well spent! Now my sandpaper is used for wood and my stones lay dry in a box under my bench. Are my chisels and plane blades as sharp as someone like Brian, Winton or David? probably not! But they are hair popping, paper slicing, end grain shaving sharp and I can get them that way much faster than I was able to with either of the previous methods. All that being said, a Tormek, even the T4 model is very expensive and if not for my luck in that auction, I probably would still be using my water stones. I think sharpening is a journey and we all end up in the right place for each of us eventually!

[Winton Applegate]

I am thinking of free hand sharpening. Is this not advisable for a novice

It is possible to get super high quality edges with out a jig sharpening Japanese bimetal single bevel chisels and plane irons. This is because the softer metal part of the blade acts like a jig and you can tell by feel when you have the bevel flat on the stone or starting to raise the soft part off which you do not want to do. The down side is with a single bevel it takes longer to abrade all that metal (the full face of the single bevel).

For Western or Euro style blades that are the same hard steel all the way across the bevel free hand sharpening is trickier and often it is desirable to put on a secondary bevel so you don’t have to abrade that whole single bevel every time you sharpen and if you think about it the wide single bevel is going to be even more difficult to keep flat because it is ALL hardened steel.

So
If you are using the Western blades on softer wood meaning like walnut and poplar and stuff then you can get away with free hand sharpening if you really concentrate and practice and hold your tongue just right and don’t step on cracks when you walk on the side walk . . . ha, ha kidding about the last bit there.

BUT
If you are going to work really hard wood and or a lot of wood; large surfaces etc like the table I am posting.
AND
OR
you are like me and could do with out all the heavy concentration and butt puckering just to do a menial every day thing that could be as easy as sweeping the floor if you use a jig then I would HIGHLY recommend using a jig, novice or pro.

[Winton Applegate]

a Tormek, even the T4 model is very expensive

I have, as I think many of us here in the forum have, spent more on stones than the full price of a new Tormek.
I have on occasion been drawn to one.
After seeing a chisel with nicks sharpened in two minutes roughly on a Tormek in the YouTube vid.
The attraction for it is back for me.
I have the Delta vertical large white wheel wet sharpener at a fraction of the cost and it is just that . . . a fraction of what is required to sharpen well and it is brain numbingly slow.

I must say I really like my Shapton stones and other water stones and really have no reason NOW to change. But it is true the Tormek is pretty cool.

[Winton Applegate]

Thomas,

Tormek . . . So I put in what I came to find out later was a ridiculously low bid and ended up winning

You suck.

[Brian Holcombe]

If you do alot of sharpening by hand it's worthwhile to get coarse and extra coarse diamond plates. You wont be able to take a nick out in 2 minutes but it wont take too long.

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks everyone. This discussion consolidates my thinking. I'm going to just focus on sharpening plane blades and chisels for now. I am partial to water stones because I grew up watching my father and family members using them. Will be getting Shapton Pro 1000, 5000, and 8000 from toolfromjapan.com (the 8000 disappeared! ). A diamond plate to flatten these stones.

My shop is also my garage, which has a large utility sink I installed when we first moved in. Maybe I will build a cabinet next to it to serve as a sharpening station.

I am thinking of free hand sharpening. Is this not advisable for a novice?

If you have not ordered as yet, an alternative is the Pro Shapton 1000 and Sigma 6000. Try just these and then, if you need a higher grit, get the Sigma 13000.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

I am thinking of free hand sharpening. Is this not advisable for a novice?

It depends on the novice. My learning to sharpen was doing it freehand. The worst that can happen it to take a slice out of a water stone.

The advantage to a blade holder for sharpening is it can help if you feel a need for a bevel angle to be precise. It can also allow one to move the blade back and forth faster, helping to speed up the sharpening time.

My only use of a shop fashioned guide is when it is a blade that has a bad nick or needs a lot of metal removed. Haven't bought many of those of late.

jtk

[Thomas Schneider]

You have no Idea! Lol Thanks!

[Mel Fulks]

Agree with Jim. Otherwise fine antiques that predate those roller things must be fakes. And I can also imagine some brain
surgeon who is new to woodworking reading Winton's advice and thinking " I didn't know sharpening was so tuff...it's back
to gardening for my hobby".

[Ivan Wolder]

I have not had a chance to read the whole thread so if this has already come up please forgive me.I came across this yesterday and have been obsessed with watching and reading what he has to say.His name is Paul Sellers,and he speaks my language (I too have an accent from the colonies).He is a master craftsman and learned his craft the old fashioned way.He also takes all the frills out of things like sharpening.He is passionate about his craft and as far as I am concerned a true inspiration.Just do a search and you too can become even more inspired.