Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 24 of 24

Thread: Making outdoor sign - Colored wood options. Is there a paint that holds up well?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Englewood, CO
    Posts
    483
    Rob, by "automotive grade" they probably mean the Matthews Paint system which is a catalyzed urethane based, formulated specifically for the sign industry, they are owned by PPG which is a leading auto pain manufacturer and had all of their R&D behind it. If a good enamel lasts 4-5 years, Matthews will last 7-8, not cheap but we've been using it for decades on all of our signs with great success.
    I don't have much experience using spar vanish because we use the Matthews clear or equivalent which is formulated specifically to use over the Matthews. Obviously the traditional Marine Spar Varnish will work fine over wood since it has been used successfully in the marine industry. From what I know about it though, the traditional solvent based finishes are getting increasingly difficult to find as they are being phased out by VOC laws, not sure how the newer replacements will hold up.
    As for mounting, a good quality RTV Silicone has always worked well for me as it had good adhesion and allows for some expansion and contraction.
    Universal PLS 6.120D 75 watt
    MutiCam Apex CNC 4'x8' w 6 bit TC.
    EnrRoute 6 Pro 3d software.
    Vision 2550 Rotary Engraver.


  2. #17
    Great work Paul! Thanks for sharing. What a professional job, done right with professional materials. Your talent shows in that sign, that's for sure. Well done!
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Joeseph View Post
    I would agree about the Marine varnish for boats being the most durable. I never worked with them on regular projects, I imagine they are more costly and difficult to source.

    My whole idea was to encapsulate the wooden letters with the paint and have it sealed fully but I still wonder about the moisture trapped inside the wood itself and I know some paints like acrylic, when painted on wood will actually breathe. The enamel paints seem like the most promising paint finish but I just found a website here that sells MDO letters rated for outdoors painted with "automotive grade paint". I wonder what type of pain that is, do they mean actual automotive paint or an enamel? http://www.woodlandmanufacturing.com...d-wood-letters

    The last sign I made I used pre-colored PVC board or Acrylite board. I had the pieces cut and them assembled them with a pvc glue. I might reconsider doing this option again too.

    If I did go with wooden or MDO painted letters I wonder what would be the best option for the backing board and how to adhere it.
    http://www.woodlandmanufacturing.com/warranties.html. Medex (MDF) and MDO are both designed to be water resistant. Add that in with good paint and it's not all that tricky to get them to look pretty good for 5 years. I actually read something the other day about someone taking trupan letters and soaking it in shellac. Because the trupan is "airy" it allows the shellac to penetrate and make a water resistant letter.

    In my opinion you're mixing up terms. Acrylite is acrylic. Acrylic is incredibly weather resistant. Acrylic signs should essentially last forever outdoors. Colored PVC(ie Komatex/Sintra) is not the same product at all. It's foamy and not designed for outdoor use. The colors fade and the material expands and contracts a lot. This should not be confused with exterior grade PVC which is a far more stable product.

    If you're just doing a solid backer with cut letters and cost is a big concern, I'd buy a piece of MDO somewhere and finish it properly (lots of posts on this subject on the internet). Then apply acrylic letters with a threaded rod. I wouldn't buy MDO or MDF letters and put them outside. When the backer board goes bad, pop off the letters, and do it again. I do think it would probably be in everyone's best interest to spend another $50-100 and buy a sheet of PVC as the base material instead. That way you're fixing the sign every 10+ years instead of every 5+ years.
    Equipment: IS400, IS6000, VLS 6.60, LS100, HP4550, Ricoh GX e3300n, Hotronix STX20
    Software: Adobe Suite & Gravostyle 5
    Business: Trophy, Awards and Engraving

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ross Moshinsky View Post
    http://www.woodlandmanufacturing.com/warranties.html. Medex (MDF) and MDO are both designed to be water resistant. Add that in with good paint and it's not all that tricky to get them to look pretty good for 5 years. I actually read something the other day about someone taking trupan letters and soaking it in shellac. Because the trupan is "airy" it allows the shellac to penetrate and make a water resistant letter.

    In my opinion you're mixing up terms. Acrylite is acrylic. Acrylic is incredibly weather resistant. Acrylic signs should essentially last forever outdoors. Colored PVC(ie Komatex/Sintra) is not the same product at all. It's foamy and not designed for outdoor use. The colors fade and the material expands and contracts a lot. This should not be confused with exterior grade PVC which is a far more stable product.

    If you're just doing a solid backer with cut letters and cost is a big concern, I'd buy a piece of MDO somewhere and finish it properly (lots of posts on this subject on the internet). Then apply acrylic letters with a threaded rod. I wouldn't buy MDO or MDF letters and put them outside. When the backer board goes bad, pop off the letters, and do it again. I do think it would probably be in everyone's best interest to spend another $50-100 and buy a sheet of PVC as the base material instead. That way you're fixing the sign every 10+ years instead of every 5+ years.

    Yeah I probably am mixing up the terms, I'm not sure of the specific product I used, it was from a plastics distributor and I'm still trying to find the name of it. I think it was PVC and not acrylic.

    Your idea sounds pretty good about using the acrylic letters.

    When you said you wouldn't buy the MDO or MDF is is because you think they would only last about 5 years painted properly with enamel? That's something to consider.

  5. #20
    Rob, remember, you're competing with sign companies that do this for a living. If you want to grow that side of your business, then do it right and have it look great for years. If you go cheap all the way and use indoor products, trying to seal them so they'll last outdoors, when there are already products out there made to stand up, I think you'll be doing yourself a disservice. Honestly, if someone is taking trupan and dipping them in shellac, they are spending more time and money than just cutting the letters out of something made for outdoors.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Joeseph View Post
    Yeah I probably am mixing up the terms, I'm not sure of the specific product I used, it was from a plastics distributor and I'm still trying to find the name of it. I think it was PVC and not acrylic.

    Your idea sounds pretty good about using the acrylic letters.

    When you said you wouldn't buy the MDO or MDF is is because you think they would only last about 5 years painted properly with enamel? That's something to consider.
    Scott explained it pretty well. You're building a sign that will not look good in 5-10 years if you use certain products. MDO/MDF will not hold up. If you live in a very dry climate, you might be okay, but if you live somewhere where it rains, like most of the US, the water will penetrate the wood. Once it does that, the sign will fail. This is just inevitable. This is why plastics and foams have taken over the sign industry. PVC, HDU, and acrylic are more or less designed to last "forever".
    Equipment: IS400, IS6000, VLS 6.60, LS100, HP4550, Ricoh GX e3300n, Hotronix STX20
    Software: Adobe Suite & Gravostyle 5
    Business: Trophy, Awards and Engraving

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Englewood, CO
    Posts
    483
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Shepherd View Post
    Great work Paul! Thanks for sharing. What a professional job, done right with professional materials. Your talent shows in that sign, that's for sure. Well done!
    Thanks for the props Steve, that means a lot coming from you!
    Agree with Steve and Ross, you guys nailed it.
    Universal PLS 6.120D 75 watt
    MutiCam Apex CNC 4'x8' w 6 bit TC.
    EnrRoute 6 Pro 3d software.
    Vision 2550 Rotary Engraver.


  8. #23
    Here's a Corian marker I did a few days ago. Family wanted a budget piece for an indigent family member. I happened to have some Corian on hand and cut it to size.

    Last name has been blacked out.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Gravograph IS400
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Dye Sublimation
    CorelDraw X5, X7

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    You can read the date on the first picture below, the sign looks exactly the same today as it did the day it was installed.

    The second picture and its closeup were installed long before the Greek signs and even though the Corian letters were painted they still look great. Although I took this picture on the same day as the Greek signs the letters are at least two years older probably installed in 2007....I can verify the date by looking at the building construction pictures. The day I installed the Greek signs I went next door to Madison Hall to take the picture of the letters so I could document how well they were holding up in the weather. The next trip I take to CNU I will take another set of photographs to update my files on these two projects.

    I have another set of signs I made for Potomac River Hall that I used painted cedar for the backer and dark blue Corian for the Sail graphics. These were done in 2004 and last year I checked both signs, the cedar needs to be painted but the Corian sails still look perfect, shiny and new. I should have used a white Corian backer on this project.

    Zero maintenance on either of the top two projects and they should look just as good in 25 years or more as they do today.

    I have two Corian signs that are right on the waterfront at Saint Mary's School that I installed in 2014. I will be watching these two signs carefully as the years go by. I can say that after plenty of storms there is no degrade on either of these signs.
    .
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 12-11-2015 at 8:25 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •