[OP]
Member
Doing a set of shaker style kitchen cabinets for someone in cherry, but they are kinda thinkin' they dont like the reddish or "salmon" tint, as they refer to it, in the cherry. They are wanting something with more of a brown, or brownish/grey. I have tons of nice cherry, and would really like to use it if possible. At this point I am just looking for suggestions to use as a base line to start experimenting. ie. dye, seal, varnish. or seal, stain, varnish. etc. Really appreciate any input!
Contributor
I built a vanity recently for a lady who wanted it made out of cherry but with a darker color. She gave me a color sample to match. Here is what it looked like when I was done.
IMG_3821.JPG
I hated doing it, but you know what they say about the customer is king (or queen, in this case). Anyway, I did it using SW's BAC Wiping Stain, starting with a stock color that the tech and I adjusted until it matched the color sample. You can get any color you want by having them add whatever dye is required. I've never used a better dye stain than the BAC Wiping Stain; goes on and off beautifully. Your approach of dye, seal, topcoat would be my first choice but that is not always the right choice, depending upon the look you are after.
John
Contributor
As an alternative you might consider potassium dichromate chemical staining. It was a mainstream process in the late 19th and early 20th centuries for furniture makers. It oxidizes high tannin woods such as cherry, walnut, oak, and mahogany, instantly aging them to a rich dark hue. I've used it on 2 large sapele projects (african mahogany) with excellent results, and am planning to use in on 2 QSWO nightstands I'm building this week. It is toxic as are other shop chemicals, but with proper protection it's safe to use. http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=27343
Others will suggest aniline dye or Transtint Dye (Homestead Finishings proprietary) for excellent results.
Post pics when you're done.
Scott Vroom
I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.
Member
I did our kitchen in mahogany and sapele. Trans Tint dye followed by three coats Endurovar in satin. Endurovar is WB but gives a varnish look.
I experimented with dyes in Brown Mahogany, Red Mahogany, Golden Brown, Yellow, Orange, Dark Vintage Maple and a few other colors before arriving at the right formula. You might want to contact Jeff Jewitt for possible formulas for the dye. You may be able to avoid a lengthy testing process.
[OP]
Member
Thanks for the replies so far. John, the stained piece looks nice, but I would be afraid if doing a whole kitchen with a wiping stain for fear of blotchiness & varying results from one piece to the next.
Scott, the potassium dichromate looks interesting. I may try to locate some & experiment, but as the article suggests, "one chemical, one effect". Maybe TT dyes would be a better route, due to the different color options.
Julie, looks real nice. I've sprayed gallons of the endurovar. Good stuff, and easy!
Last edited by jim mills; 03-18-2015 at 12:28 PM.
Contributor
Boats. Electrical. Guitars. Kitchen cabinets. Dye. Spraying.
Julie - let's do this the easy way: Can you please tell us "guys" what you ARE NOT skilled in? Gotta be a much shorter list.
In no way meant as a sexist comment - It is just outside common-day experience, that's all. Happy to be here to read your stuff.
Hat's off.
Originally Posted by Julie Moriarty
When I started woodworking, I didn't know squat. I have progressed in 30 years - now I do know squat.
Contributor
Jim, I wouldn't choose the wiping stain as my #1 preference either. But if you look at the piece I posted and then you look at the picture in Julie's post you will how different the two look. Not just the color, but the clarity, too. You can get any color you want either way, but they look different. Which way you go depends upon what your client wants. I'd much rather spray Transtint dye, if at all possible, but if the client wants a more subtle, muted look, it won't give it to you unless maybe you apply a glaze on top of it after the sealer.
John
[OP]
Member
John, I think you are right. I think they want a more subtle, brownish/grey unglossy finish. I am picturing something out of the pottery barn catalogue. Part of me says dont waste the cherry on this project, but I have it, and it is easy to work with.
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Dyeing cherry can be a misleading and moot effort. Cherry darkens with time. It can look like Julie's sample all on its own.
The only 'salmon' tint I can recall on cherry is when it's fresh milled and unfinished.
What it WON'T become is grey. If you try to make it grey, the natural aging of cherry will overcome mild grey and give you a long term color different from what you initially intend. I'm puzzled by their desire for grey; does this mean they want it to look aged? If that's the case, then you can achieve a darker tone by using a dark brown or black glaze before your final top coats. This will darken the overall finish but in a way that makes it look antiqued. If you by 'grey' they mean 'weathered', then I'm at a loss.
I suggest you take a cut off, shoot it with some shellac as a sealer, then top coat it, and leave it in the sun for a couple days. Then show the customer that vs. the fresh milled stuff. I have been tempted many times to color cherry, and have never regretted letting it age naturally. Even skeptic clients (read, SWMO) are converts after 6 months. (And that's REALLY saying something.)
Now, I'm saying this distinctly out of one side of my mouth. Out of the other, I will say that I empathize with your position; I have a customer who wants me to dye some nice walnut slabs 'chocolate brown (read, espresso)' for her desk.
You can take the client out of the Pottery Barn, but you can't take the Pottery Barn out of the client...
Last edited by Prashun Patel; 03-18-2015 at 4:17 PM.
Contributor
Jim, one more thought. If you end up having to color it, no matter how you do it, you will want to use a topcoat that has a good UV package in it to prevent the cherry from aging. It still will, eventually, but with the UV package the color won't change much for many, many years. SW's makes what I think is a very good product, although I haven't used it because they only sell it in 5 gal minimum quantities. For a kitchen, however, you'll need all that and more. There may be other KCMA rated topcoats out there, too, I just don't know who makes them. Probably any of the major finish manufacturers. I use General Finishes HP Poly and am very pleased with it, except it is not all that chemically durable and I don't recommend it for kitchen cabinets. I suppose you could use it for the first two coats, and then topcoat that with GF's Enduro Clear Poly, which is very durable and KCMA rated, but I've never done it.
John
Member
If they don't like cherry why pay extra for cabinets made of cherry?
Contributor
A never ending debate: Cherry is beautiful on its own..I still like BLO, followed by Garnet shellac and then your choice of topcoat.
Jerry
Contributor
People want what they want. When it's a paying customer I find it's better to just accept that and give them what they want, because if I don't someone else will.
John
Contributor
If you want to make I t brown you can add some green dye ( a very small amount) to an untinted oil but then you are wiping. It's not that big a deal to wipe a kitchen worth of cabinets. When I did my kitchen I used cherry and wiped on cherry Watco just to speed up the darkening a bit to better match my 10 year old natural cherry dining table. Then I topcoated with conversion varnish.
Steve Jenkins, McKinney, TX. 469 742-9694
Always use the word "impossible" with extreme caution
[OP]
Member
Just a follow-up on this topic. I havent done anything yet, but i was in the home depot today and looked at a craftmaid cabinet color display. I was amazed at the variety of colors available in what thet refer to as "cherry wood" cabinets. Everything from almost black, to a "NATURAL" finish that looked like clear water base on maple. Of the about 20 samples of cherry wood cabinets, only a few had any hint of red to them. Some looked like walnut, some even resembled hickory.
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