[OP]
Member
I'm realizing the real answer to this would have been to install shutoffs further down in the little space behind the shower when we had that access opened up fully in the progress of replumbing and rebuilding the shower. If only I had thought ahead!
" Be willing to make mistakes in your basements, garages, apartments and palaces. I have made many. Your first attempts may be poor. They will not be futile. " - M.S. Bickford, Mouldings In Practice
[OP]
Member
Sounds like Dahl makes what I was actually imagining the valve I saw at Lowes was. Here's someone using it:
http://www.familyhandyman.com/plumbi...yback/view-all
Online on the Canadian Home Depot : http://www.homedepot.ca/product/3-8-...t-valve/959982
My local plumbing supply house carries Dahl. Maybe worth checking out?
I think in the end, I'll just repack the original valves and see how that works, but depending on price, this might be helpful if it lets me knock out this sink over my couple days off. I think I promised this to my wife four years ago (and the replacement sink has been sitting in the closet the whole time). The tiled shower and other projects I actually have done are getting to be less of a conciliation prize. She's tired of our poor-condition old sink and the bubbled laminate. I'd really rather replace the cabinets below, but that's more than I want to tackle right now. But a replacement sink and counter I can knock out quickly, and replace the plumbing when we have the money or time to tackle new cabinets.
Thanks for all your help guys, by the way. I appreciate it.
Last edited by Jessica Pierce-LaRose; 03-18-2015 at 6:30 PM.
" Be willing to make mistakes in your basements, garages, apartments and palaces. I have made many. Your first attempts may be poor. They will not be futile. " - M.S. Bickford, Mouldings In Practice
Contributor
Joshua
Without an actual picture of what the existing plumbing termination looks like, I have to second Chris Padilla's Sharkbite suggestion. Short of sweating on a quality valve, this is the better solution.
Shark bite makes a 1/2" copper to 3/8" compression fitting. It's a one and done. Don't worry about the Sharkbite valve body spinning. It's not going to let loose.
The Dahl's are a temporary fix.If the seats are going on your existing valves, it won't be long before mineral deposits etch their way through whatever makes up the backseat and gland stem box of the existing valve and they then leak by the stem packing.Repacking the valve is not going to fix a leaky seat issue.
I have used virtually every compression fitting currently available, and some not available for the consumer. I work with gas and hydraulic pressures up to 25,000 psi. and in my opinion the Sharkbites are a very valid long term solution. Not as good as a sweated valve/fitting, but very close. It's also a fix that can be remediated very easily down the line, if the existing piping is ever changed out.
"The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)
[OP]
Member
No, I agree it's a temporary fix. I'm actually okay with a temp fix for now, but only one that makes sense, I'm not sure this one would
I'm actually a little surprised that the existing valves only pass water when closed, and don't leak by the stem when open; part of why I'm hesitant to touch them.
If I was to go the Sharkbite route, I'd probably just sweat valves onto a new section of pipe, and cut back the old pipe to use a straight Shark Bite to join the old and new. Because of the closeness to the cabinet shelf, putting a Shark Bite valve where the threaded fittings are now is a little tight.
On the topic of stupid ideas, is there a way to cap off the existing valve body? Remove the whole stem assembly and screw something in there to make it water-tight again? I don't plan on doing this, I was just kind of curious.
" Be willing to make mistakes in your basements, garages, apartments and palaces. I have made many. Your first attempts may be poor. They will not be futile. " - M.S. Bickford, Mouldings In Practice
Contributor
Joshua
Those valves are actually pretty cheesy. They do what they need to do, which is to pretty much isolate the sink fixture, but beyond that they're not that reliable as an isolation valve, as you've seen. They are a low yield white metal and while there may be a soft seat/plug replacement for them, the actual seating surface is in the body and will be soft seat to plug. All of my fixtures have brass shutoffs in the basement for each leg, but under the sinks are these types of valves.
If you can post a photo it would be a help. It really sounds as if a less than professional installation was done prior to your involvement, and you are trying to remediate something that would be better off replaced from the supply lines up. If you have the skill set to sweat, this may be your best long term fix. Temporary plumbing fixes have a nasty habit of failing at the most inopportune times.
"The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)
Contributor
If you have plenty of copper pipe available under the existing shutoffs, I'd recommend that you get quarter turn compression stops. 1/2" compression to 3/8" compression. As long as you have undamaged copper pipe, i.e. no dents or creases, they will seal fine. The advantage of installing them is that if one requires replacement at a later date, you can unscrew the existing valve and thread on a new one, using the existing compression nut and ferrule. If you install them, just tighten them up to the point that there is no leakage.
The master plumber that I work under has us installing them on all our new installations as well as any replacement valves we install. You may pay a little more for the 1/4 turn stops, but they're definitely worth it. As to your original idea/question, the only way you would be able to get something that would connect to your existing ends, would be to get something that would connect to your existing 3/8" compression fitting. Similar to the hose that connects your plumbing to your faucet. It would take a menagerie of fittings to be able to thread another stop in line. And if your existing valves start to leak around the packings, it would all be for naught.
If you do go the compression stops, clean the end of your pipe well before installing. A little pipe dope around the ferrule inside the compression nut is cheap insurance as well.
Good luck
BTW, those fittings you asked about from Lowes would only work if you installed a hose, or tubing, with 3/8" compression fittings on each end.
Clint
Last edited by Clint Baxter; 03-18-2015 at 9:38 PM.
Member
Yes, you can get auxiliary shut offs that screw onto the old valves where the supply tubes go. Good for use when your main shutoff doesn't work. Have you tried replacing the washer in the existing shutoff? ( cheapest way)
Member
Originally Posted by Joshua Pierce
I did the exact same thing as the article you referenced a few years back when I installed a new toilet and the standard toilet supply lines (braided flexible) were about 3/4 inch too short. Lowe's had a shut off that fit right on my old shutoff (piggyback) and connected to the flexible supply line. Leave the old valve fully open and use the new one for turning water off/on. Had to search the bins carefully at Lowes to find it, and there was only one left when I bought mine. Just under ten buck, but saved a lot of grief.
Contributor
It seems to me that whenever I need to change a faucet washer or some other task that involves shutting water off to a fixture the first task always involves rebuilding the shutoff valves, which in turn involves shutting the house water off, negating the value of having shutoff valves at the fixture. I've taken to replacing the traditional (cheesy) washer and packed stem type shutoff valves with good quality ball valves and have, so far, had good luck with them still working by the next time I need to use them. Can't quite bring myself to trust the sharkbite connectors (and don't want to pay for them), so I still sweat my fittings.
Not likely a solution for the OP, but on at least 3 kitchen remodels where the old shutoffs were either non-functional or soldered after installing the cabinets, I ended up going in the basement and installing sharkbite ball valves which allowed me to remove all of the old kitchen hot and cold water supply piping and come back later and do it right. Great thing about the sharkbite is that you can install them even with a trickle of water running, unlike sweating on a valve. They don't replace a long run of copper, but they certainly have their uses.
NOW you tell me...
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