Oneida Smart Dust Collector on dedicated 20A circuit

[Wade Lippman]

The current requirement is not for running, but for starting. For instance, the circuit I have my oscillating sander and vacuum on works if I turn the vacuum on first, but trips if I turn the sander on first.
That said, Grizzly recommends a 40a circuit for their 3hp cyclone. I, and probably everyone else, find it works fine on 30a. Presumably some fail on some 30a breakers, and they don't want complaints about defective cyclones.

So try it if you want, but don't be surprised if Oneida is right. My old JDS 3hp cyclone worked on one 20a breaker, but not on another.

[Jim A Walters]

Interesting. I have the 3 hp Smart DC and installed it on a dedicated 20 amp circuit since I guess I did not see the 30 amp recommendation. I looked at the amp draw specs on the motor and also the cord that came with it. It's about a 15 foot 12 awg wire with a 20 amp NEMA type plug on the end.

I've had it just over a year and it has run fine. It starts quick and has never tripped the breaker. This is only a hobby for me so I don't run this for any extended lengths of time.

I have the dedicated outlet within inches of the electrical panel since that's where it works for me to have it plugged in. I can swap it out for 30 amp pretty easy but based on the motor specs I'm not sure I need to. I'll be curious to see if there's any definitive conclusion on this.

Jim

[John Donofrio]

Interesting. I have the 3 hp Smart DC and installed it on a dedicated 20 amp circuit since I guess I did not see the 30 amp recommendation. I looked at the amp draw specs on the motor and also the cord that came with it. It's about a 15 foot 12 awg wire with a 20 amp NEMA type plug on the end.

I've had it just over a year and it has run fine. It starts quick and has never tripped the breaker. This is only a hobby for me so I don't run this for any extended lengths of time.

I have the dedicated outlet within inches of the electrical panel since that's where it works for me to have it plugged in. I can swap it out for 30 amp pretty easy but based on the motor specs I'm not sure I need to. I'll be curious to see if there's any definitive conclusion on this.

Jim

Thanks Jim, this is good to hear. Your setup and usage sounds similar to mine except my dedicated outlet is a little farther away from the panel (the run may be 30ft of #12).

Have you connected it to a single 2.5" port or are all the machine ports you use the collector on larger?

Without getting too far off topic, how do you like the machine?

[Len Rosenberg]

Ok, got some very useful info from the nice folks at Oneida (they really are helpful). The Smart collector has a soft start, to avoid any amperage spike. The 19Amp spec is a conservative one, meaning that is the maximum amp draw under certain demanding conditions, e.g. if the collector is hooked up to multiple small ports with a lot of resistance. In most instances, the max draw will be about 16 amps, so a 20 amp circuit is fine. They also told me that the smart circuitry is tuned to a specific point for maximum air flow. If the collector is tripping on a 20 amp circuit, it can be retuned to a different point to reduce the amp draw. I was told that this would reduce maximum suction, but not by a significant amount. This info seems consistent with Jim Walter's experience of running the 3 hp smart on a 20a circuit with no problems. I would not hesitate to install a 30 amp circuit for the unit in place of the 20a one I already installed, unfortunately my panels are maxed out and I would have to replace an entire panel to do that. So once my 3hp smart is up and running (hope to have the ductwork installed in a week or so), I will try it on 20 amps and see how it goes. Hope this helps.

Len

[Jim A Walters]

John,

I've connected it to my router table which has a 2" port to which I've attached a 4" to 2" reducer. I then attach a 4" flexible hose that I can move around wherever I need it. I've also used it some with the 2.5" Cleanshop hose accessory kit that Oneida sells for floor cleanup, etc. It's worked fine with both. On a few occasions I've partially opened a separate blast gate when using the router table or 2.5" hose so that it could draw more air. I can't say that I noticed any appreciable difference.

I popped the top off tonight to take another look at the specs on the motor.
IMG_0019.jpg

It does show it as a 3 phase motor. It draws anywhere from 8.2 to 7.4 amps depending on the voltage if I'm reading it right. Based on the earlier post stating that with the 3 phase vfd that the amps would be doubled then it's somewhere in the 16 amp range. Hopefully someone can verify.

I like it a lot. I've had no trouble with it and it has drastically reduced the dust in my shop. Part of the reason I went with this was due to the excellent filtration that it has. One thing negative was that the instructions to put it together were off a bit in a few places. I think they made a few improvements and didn't correct the installation instructions. It was easy enough to figure though.

Jim

[Steve Peterson]

I asked Oneida if 20A would be sufficient (the manual recommends 30A) and their reply was to stick to the 30A recommendation which I understand due to liability issues. But they also added I might be able to "get by" with 20A if when connecting the collector to a small (<4") connection I open another port to allow more air flow.

I am not sure if the Oneida rep is the correct person to ask for advice about this issue. In fact, he is completely wrong about the power draw vs airflow. The current will be the highest if you open additional ports to allow more airflow. The lowest current is when all ports are closed and air is just spinning around the impeller.

Do you have an attic access or crawl space below? We had an electrician re-wire a dryer power plug to 30A 220 for $500. I would have done it myself for the cost of the wire (around $100), but we were selling the house and needed an electrician. It should be about a 2-3 hour job if you have access.

Steve

[John Donofrio]

I am not sure if the Oneida rep is the correct person to ask for advice about this issue. In fact, he is completely wrong about the power draw vs airflow. The current will be the highest if you open additional ports to allow more airflow. The lowest current is when all ports are closed and air is just spinning around the impeller.

Do you have an attic access or crawl space below? We had an electrician re-wire a dryer power plug to 30A 220 for $500. I would have done it myself for the cost of the wire (around $100), but we were selling the house and needed an electrician. It should be about a 2-3 hour job if you have access.

Steve

The issue is with this model having a VFD. When the airflow is restricted it tries to overcome this by speeding up the impeller to create more suction, thereby drawing more power (think shopvac when you block the hose).

No basement but there is an attic. I never said it was impossible to upgrade to #10, just that wouldn't be very easy and it's something I'd rather avoid if I can. Worst case if I go with this model is I add another or upgrade this circuit. Of course conduit is always an option but one I'd rather not use.

[John Donofrio]

Len,
They certainly gave you a more complete description of the issue than I got, maybe because you called and I used email. Either way it's good information. Thanks for sharing.

Jim,
Thank you too for the update and motor data. One last question (at least for now ). Have you had it running with say a 4" hose connected and then restricted it down to a smaller port such as a 2 1/2? If so, could you tell or hear the pitch change as the thing tries to overpower the restriction?


All things considered I am now convinced I could use the smart model without major issues, which is what I was hoping to gain from this thread. During this discussion I have been looking hard at the 3HP Dust Gorilla Portable and V-System 3000, either of which I believe would serve me very well. Both are considerably less money even after adding the same bells to the V3000 (stand, metal drum, level strobe, remote). i do like the portability of the Dust Gorilla Portable though. Any way, the race is now on for all three so possibly before I actually make the purchase (soon hopefully) I'll scour the forum or start another thread to help decide. A huge advantage for the later two is that there would be some budget for ducting which would be nice, real nice actually.

[Jim A Walters]

John,
I did a quick experiment with it. I had my 4" flexible hose not connected to anything and started it up. Once it was up to speed I slid it on the connector for my router table which has roughly a 2" opening. I could definitely hear it ramp up to a higher pitch. I then pulled it off with it still running (which isn't real easy by the way), and I could hear the pitch go lower again.

I'm not sure how to really interpret that though. You get the same affect if you run your household vacuum and then block the end of the hose. The motor will rev up but I think it's just doing what Steve said, just spinning the air inside the vacuum with less resistance and therefore the motor is able to run faster.

I wish I had an ammeter to measure what's going on. It's a bit hard to tell from just the sound.

[Wade Lippman]

John,
I did a quick experiment with it. I had my 4" flexible hose not connected to anything and started it up. Once it was up to speed I slid it on the connector for my router table which has roughly a 2" opening. I could definitely hear it ramp up to a higher pitch. I then pulled it off with it still running (which isn't real easy by the way), and I could hear the pitch go lower again.

I'm not sure how to really interpret that though. You get the same affect if you run your household vacuum and then block the end of the hose. The motor will rev up but I think it's just doing what Steve said, just spinning the air inside the vacuum with less resistance and therefore the motor is able to run faster.

I wish I had an ammeter to measure what's going on. It's a bit hard to tell from just the sound.

When I close all the gates to my Griz 3hp cyclone the pitch goes up. I take it as an indicator that I forgot to open a gate. Don't know what it actually means; but since it isn't VFD it can't be that.

[Michael W. Clark]

The issue is with this model having a VFD. When the airflow is restricted it tries to overcome this by speeding up the impeller to create more suction, thereby drawing more power (think shopvac when you block the hose).

Your max amp draw will be when your fan is pulling as much air as possible. A shop vac pulls less amps when the hose is blocked, same for a DC, its not doing any work. It takes a significant increase in fan speed to generate additional SP.

I would get the model without the VFD, less expensive and fewer controls to malfunction later. You generally want your DC running full out, use the shop vac for the 2" connections.

Mike

[John Donofrio]

I would get the model without the VFD, less expensive and fewer controls to malfunction later. You generally want your DC running full out, use the shop vac for the 2" connections.

Mike

You may have just pushed me over the edge although I had a bit of a lean already. I'm typically all about the price/performance factor when making these types of purchases and just don't see the performance gain for the price difference between the two. Now if I can just talk Oneida into splitting the freight charges to make the wife (aka coupon queen) a little more at ease with the purchase, I'll be all set. I figure asking before the half price shipping ends in a few days there's a better chance.

I still haven't completely ruled out the V-3000 but I'm not sure I want to be forced into immediately hanging a bunch of duct, although that will happen eventually (you know, vision vs reality). Like so many here have expressed, the process of beating one's self up trying to decide which route to take can be exhausting. I'm tired...

[Michael W. Clark]

Not trying to help you spend money and I don't know the shipping cost or how much value the sale is,... but there is only about $150 difference in the 3HP and 5HP V-systems. The savings on shipping could be viewed as a way to offset the price difference. Of course, both are considerably less than the SMART system you were considering. If you are going to run a 30A service anyway, that cost is the same and the desire for a future upgrade would be reduced.

I prefer metal but that starts getting back up in price if you are staying with Oneida. I don't think you will go "wrong" with any of your options. Once you make your decision, enjoy it and don't look back.

[Len Rosenberg]

Just want to point out that cost and horse power are not the only considerations. I bought the 3 hp smart because it was the most powerful dc Oneida sells that will fit in my workshop, which has low ceilings. I would have preferred the non-vfd models, but they are way too tall.

[Jim Andrew]

I also do not want to rewire my walls, so when I need another circuit I run it over the ceiling. My panel is on the wall, and I had to remove the wallboard above it to access the panel.