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Thread: VERY LONG Cyclone Separator Review (dc to cyclone conversion)

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Andy Howard
    I am outside of Greenville, SC.

    I have got to be the youngest one in our 300+ woodworking guild. I bet the average age is 30 years older than me, maybe higher!

    Andy
    Andy, I consider you one lucky SOB

    Out of the 300+ there has to be a few of them oldtimers who are willing to teach you some stuff, and in return a younging like yourself can always be put to work lifting heavy stuff

    My kids are 9 and 11, and I learn from them about stuff all the time!!

    Cheers!

  2. Quote Originally Posted by frank shic
    andy, great job!

    i was just perusing woodworker's association about two days ago and came across a thread mentioning stu ablett and his adventures in japan so i clicked on the link and was UTTERLY AMAZED at what's he been able to BUILD and SALVAGE there in the land of the rising sun - especially the cyclone! so i checked out bill pentz's site and thought, "gee, 20 hours seems like a LOT of time with one daughter and another on the way..." so i looked around and found the cycloneseparator web site and wondered if it might be a good alternative.

    LO AND BEHOLD andy posts this message and stu ablett actually responds to it as well!

    coincidence or fate?
    Frank it is funny how life works, but don't fight it!!

    You don't have to make the cyclone in one weekend!

    I'm so very pleased with mine, just the other day I empited it for the first time, the bin was less than half full, maybe 8 to 10 gallons of sawdust. I then checked my clean out at the bottom of my filter stack........


    Yep, nothing.

    I then put the drawer back in and lightly beat the filter stack and then used compressed air to blow back on the filter stack, trying to dislodge any dust on the filters....

    Yep, still NOTHING!! I could not believe it!

    I'm not trying to rain on Andy's parade here, just saying that the design from Mr. Pentz's site really works.

    I could, when I ran my hand accross the bottom of the drawer just make out some dust on my finger tips.....

    Man do cyclones rock!

    Cheers!

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    York Co, PA
    Posts
    398
    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan
    <snip>
    I then put the drawer back in and lightly beat the filter stack and then used compressed air to blow back on the filter stack, trying to dislodge any dust on the filters....

    Yep, still NOTHING!! I could not believe it!

    I'm not trying to rain on Andy's parade here, just saying that the design from Mr. Pentz's site really works.

    I could, when I ran my hand accross the bottom of the drawer just make out some dust on my finger tips.....

    Man do cyclones rock!

    Cheers!
    Great info! I was debating on whether or not to add a drawer like you did Stu. I think I can safely omit it based upon your and Andy's observations.

    Cheers,
    -Mike

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Mike Weaver
    Great info! I was debating on whether or not to add a drawer like you did Stu. I think I can safely omit it based upon your and Andy's observations.

    Cheers,
    -Mike
    Mike, I'd still put it in there, because if you can check, you might find some sort of problem, for example if you get a clog in your cyclone (why you would not wear sneakers is question that needs to be answered...... ) then the dust may get through the cyclone to the filters, this would be a good way to see that.

    It was not much work, so I'd still put one in.

    Cheers!

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    York Co, PA
    Posts
    398
    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan
    Mike, I'd still put it in there, because if you can check, you might find some sort of problem, for example if you get a clog in your cyclone (why you would not wear sneakers is question that needs to be answered...... ) then the dust may get through the cyclone to the filters, this would be a good way to see that.

    It was not much work, so I'd still put one in.

    Cheers!
    Stu,
    I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength, but I've been wrong before.

    I'm still doing the drop box w/ a wide, hinged door, but I'm just skipping the nice drawer within that drop box. I can always add it later.
    (I need to post progress pics sometime soon so that my garbled dscriptions can be understood)

    As to clogs in my cyclone - I never wear them, so that point is moot.

    Cheers,
    -Mike

  6. #21
    Thanks much Andy for the info. I have the same cyclone hooked up to a 3 hp Powermatic. I noticed the same thing about the lack of a neutral vane & the center tube length. I was also thinking of adding an air ramp inside. It works pretty well as is for the money, but the modifications seem to be pretty simple, except for the ramp which I'll have to think about.

    Thanks again
    Mark B.
    Last edited by Mark J Bachler; 08-05-2005 at 9:55 AM.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Mike Weaver
    Stu,
    I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength, but I've been wrong before.

    I'm still doing the drop box w/ a wide, hinged door, but I'm just skipping the nice drawer within that drop box. I can always add it later.
    (I need to post progress pics sometime soon so that my garbled dscriptions can be understood)

    As to clogs in my cyclone - I never wear them, so that point is moot.

    Cheers,
    -Mike
    OK Mike, I see what you mean, sure the drawer I put in the clean out drop box is overkill, but I was waiting for my filters to arrive, so I had time to kill! Lucky they came when they did, or that box would have been made from Ash with dovetailed corners!!

    Cheers!

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    322

    Question

    I have limited space, but want to improve dust control. What do you think of making or buying a cyclone and just venting it outside instead of a filter? It looks like a cyclone gets almost everything.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    York Co, PA
    Posts
    398
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ault
    I have limited space, but want to improve dust control. What do you think of making or buying a cyclone and just venting it outside instead of a filter? It looks like a cyclone gets almost everything.
    If you do that, you need to be cognizant of where the replacement air will come from. In other words, you'll draw replacement air from *somewhere*...could be a smoke filled chimney, etc...

    -Mike

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    322
    That's good thinking. In my case though the air will come through my open garage door. I would probably vent out the side of the garage. Any additional air coming through the open door would be entirely welcome by me.

  11. #26

    Checking in on the Gary MacIntyre Cyclone

    Andy,

    I’m impressed with your modifications, but have a few points for people to consider before buying or building a cyclone dust collector.

    With only two exceptions every hobbyist cyclone and cyclone plan available still uses an inappropriate cyclone design. All but WoodSucker and my design sold by Clear Vue Cyclones are downscaled versions of the huge agricultural cyclones we see outside most large commercial woodworking facilities. And no, the new Grizzly that borrows heavily from my design works like the rest because they made too many compromises. This agricultural cyclone design that everyone else sells uses very high internal turbulence to break sand and dirt loose from cotton, blows the cotton out the cyclone top and drops the sand and dirt into a collection bin. A little tuning makes this design work great for large woodworking firms because it separates and drops the heavier material into a dust bin and blows the remaining fine airborne dust out the cyclone top into the outside air. This type of design gives almost exactly the same efficiency of a trashcan separator lid.

    Bringing these units indoors with open filters makes a great chip collector, but trying to turn them into a good fine dust collector creates such a nightmare of problems that almost every hobbyist cyclone vendor is now abandoning this design as quickly as they can. Cyclones are well understood and have been used for more than fifty years, so downsizing one of these for hobbyist use is easy. We need a 13.5” in diameter 54” tall cyclone powered by a 7.5 to 15 hp blower depending upon shop tools, ducting and other resistance. With most hobbyists unwilling to buy or pay for the power to run, let alone having home wiring to support this big of a motor, hobbyist vendors made lots of compromises to permit using a smaller motor. They went with larger diameter cyclones because the bigger the diameter the less hard the motor has to work to turn the air inside the cyclone. Unfortunately, making a cyclone diameter large enough to power with a typical up to 2 hp dust collector blower requires a 5’2” diameter cyclone that stands over 20’ tall. Oneida-Air did a great job with their early cyclone design compromises building what was then the best chip collector available. They went with 18” to 22” diameter cyclones, used 1.5 to 3 hp motors, and traded fine dust separation for a shorter cone. These make great chip collectors but terrible fine dust collectors.

    Unable to change the motor or cyclone size, most vendors simply added finer filter bags or cartridges. With close to 100% of the finest dust blowing into these filters they plug quickly. A clogged filter kills the airflow needed for good fine dust collection. Cleaning filters is an unpleasant chore and cleaning ruins these expensive filters quickly. My web pages showed back in 2001 what was needed to help this design work better. The consensus was then and is still that fixing this design to work as a good indoor fine dust collector costs more and takes longer than building a new cyclone from scratch. This is why I rolled up my sleeves and did the research, engineering and development to provide hobbyists with a better unit.

    bill

  12. #27
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Moore, SC
    Posts
    112
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark J Bachler
    Thanks much Andy for the info. I have the same cyclone hooked up to a 3 hp Powermatic. I noticed the same thing about the lack of a neutral vane & the center tube length. I was also thinking of adding an air ramp inside. It works pretty well as is for the money, but the modifications seem to be pretty simple, except for the ramp which I'll have to think about.

    Thanks again
    Mark B.
    Mark,

    I did try to add an air ramp, but just couldnt get it instaled properly without an extra person and a welder of some sort. I am sure someone with more skill would be able to do it no problem.

    According to Bill Pentz, the neutral vane "generates about 1/3 better performance" than without one.

    The air ramp helps more with the very fine dust separation.

    I am not saying it isnt worth doing, just that the neutral vane is a much bigger improvement and very easy to do. The Air ramp is a bit harder, as you have to have a good way to attach the metal together while bending it in to place, and that is somewhat difficult without a welder.

    If you have this cyclone you should definately do the mods to it and you will see a big improvement.

    Andy

  13. Mr Bill Pentz, Thank you , Thank you, Thank you!!

    Sir;

    I want to publicly thank you for the great design of the cyclone that I built, Thank You VERY much!!

    The cyclone works very well, and I want to also thank you for the help and the encouragement you gave me along the way as I was fitting it together and bothering you with questions.

    I know that you have put a lot of time and effort into your research and into your homepage, and I also know that you have had to swim against the current on this subject to some degree, I'm sure glad that you took that time and the effort and braved the current to make this all availible for the world to see.

    Thanks you, just does not seem like enough, but unless you are coming to Tokyo any time soon that will have to do.

    You guys, Bill's cyclone rocks, it does exactly what he says it will and I'm so very happy that I made the leap to build it, I will never regret it. I'm much better off now than I was with that messy, noisy dust collector.

    Bill you da man!!

    Cheers!

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    York Co, PA
    Posts
    398
    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan

    <snip>
    Thank you, just does not seem like enough, but unless you are coming to Tokyo any time soon that will have to do.

    <snip>
    Actually, Bill solicits donations via his web page and has a paypal account for anyone so inclined...

    Cheers,
    -Mike

    PS I couldn't agree more.
    </snip></snip>

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Santa Barbara County, CA
    Posts
    499
    I also would like to thank Mr. Pentz for the time and trouble it took to develop such a great DC unit.

    The one I built that's powered by two HF blowers works great. It's been over a year now, and I haven't yet had to clean my filters.

    Thanks again Bill.

    nic

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