Large Live Edge Dining Table Help Needed.

[Scott T Smith]

I have a little bit of expertise in this area. Although I am equipped to plane a 6' wide slab, in your shoes rather than using hand planes or a hand held sander I would encourage you to build a router sled (check youtube for examples), as this will allow you to mill the slab perfectly flat. Then use a hand sander to remove the residue from the router bit (typically a 2" bowl bit) and you will have a very flat slab. Won't hurt to do both sides.

Many craftspeople who work with a lot of slabs will use a floor sander. You have to be careful though because it can get out of control quickly. The router sled is much more forgiving - even if you have to dedicate some time and $ to constructing it.

Personally I prefer West System Epoxy with 206 hardener as opposed to the 5 minute epoxy. The reason why is that I prefer to completely fill the void, and in the case of any internal checks the slow setting West System will wick into all of the nooks and cranny's as it starts to cure (the heat reduces the viscosity), and in the end the slab will be structurally intact (which should help keep it more stable over the long term). Sometimes you have to keep adding a bit of expoxy for the first 30 - 45 minutes as it works its way totally into the voids.

I also prefer to add color to the epoxy - typically black, as it works well with many woods. I would suggest that you do the epoxy work before using the router sled.

Yes, by all means finish both top and bottom with the same thickness of finish, and use slotted holes in whatever you attach it to. I like post catalyzed conversion varnish for any tables used for food, (to my knowledge it is the most moisture and chemical resistant of the commercial finishes) but it requires a controlled environment to apply.

The only place that I would consider a butterfly is by the arrow above the "42" chalk writing. To me, the little piece sticking out on the left might be a candidate to break over time.

Nice slab. Good luck with your project.

Scott

[Shawn Pixley]

As for flattening, I am scared to use a hand plane on this piece, a little less scared of a belt sander. As Jerry stated, the place I got the wood from did belt sand it already. I am seeing about 1/8” or a ¼” of cupping. I was originally thinking of using the base to flatten it out, however, I am worried I would twist the base. (OK, I will admit, I have built a live edge table before and twisted the base by using this theory….)

However, I do like the idea of pulling the work piece flat and only finish sanding it. One idea I had was to pull it flat using slotted angle steel and high strength screws. Screw the Angle Steel the width of the table to get rid of the cup. Slot so it has some movement, and mount the legs and the skirt outside the angle pieces. Part of my loves this idea, part of me doesn’t. Seems like Keith thinks this is a bad idea? Can you elaborate on why?

Don't be scared of the hand plane. Like a belt sander, the tool is not the issue, the operator is. With a hand plane, the mistake would be much slower and less dramatic than the belt sander. You can achieve what you want with any of three methods: router and flattening sled, belt sander, or a hand plane. I would choose the plane, but I have done all.

Pulling the slab flat - bad idea. Don't fight the wood, you'll lose. If you want to learn something, embrace the problem and overcome it. Flattening isn't that hard, and the skills you learn will pay off on other projects. Build the project and your skills for the future.

[Keith Pleas]

Personally I prefer West System Epoxy with 206 hardener as opposed to the 5 minute epoxy. The reason why is that I prefer to completely fill the void, and in the case of any internal checks the slow setting West System will wick into all of the nooks and cranny's as it starts to cure (the heat reduces the viscosity), and in the end the slab will be structurally intact (which should help keep it more stable over the long term). Sometimes you have to keep adding a bit of expoxy for the first 30 - 45 minutes as it works its way totally into the voids.

Is there a reason you prefer 206 over 207? I'm guessing that since you're coloring it black then the extra "clearness" of 207 isn't important.

Also, have you tried any CPES first?

Finally, if you're coloring the epoxy anyway, then it doesn't really matter if you add re-fill near the end of the pot life or do a 2nd batch later, right?

[Dan Hahr]

Based on your stated skill level, I would not even consider a plane unless it was simply to smooth the flattened surface. 6/4 wood is not that thick for a slab that big. If the only cup you have is 1/8th of an inch, I would not even consider trying to flatten it further. Jerry suggested that your slab has probably been machined to its current size and sanded. If it is an even 6/4, I would see if it can be flattened by hand pressure in the middle of the cup. If you can move it by human power, a decent size fastener will hold it just fine. Flattening it will not guarantee that it will not move further.

If you were to need to flatten it, the router sled method is probably the only solution you will be able to handle yourself. Trying to flatten that with event the best array of hand planes using your limited experience will drive you insane, and probably wind up scarring your expensive slab to the point you will want to take it somewhere to have it wide belt sanded. If you want to learn how to flatten a slab, start with something like a cutting board.

Dan

[Scott T Smith]

Is there a reason you prefer 206 over 207? I'm guessing that since you're coloring it black then the extra "clearness" of 207 isn't important.

Also, have you tried any CPES first?

Finally, if you're coloring the epoxy anyway, then it doesn't really matter if you add re-fill near the end of the pot life or do a 2nd batch later, right?

Keith, in most of my applications the epoxy is colored, hence the 206. The extra clarity has not been required for any of my previous projects, but I would think that 207 would be just as suitable as 206 (and more so if the clarity is desired).

I have not used CPES because the wood that I used the epoxy on was solid and not punky.

Correct re the 2nd batch. Often times I'm mixing up multiple batches when working with large slabs. I usually mix up what I will apply within 10 - 15 minutes, and then mix an additional batch.

[Michael E Turner]

Thanks again for all of the input. I really appreciate it. I managed to spend a total of 20 minutes on this project in the last week, but it was a solid productive 20 minutes….

All your responses have given me a few questions. (As I am sure you guys suspected)

I don’t know why I didn’t think of using west system, I have used it a ton on repairing my old house, and the stuff is amazing. Thanks for the input. When you use the west system, do you use the filler as well? Or just the Resin and the hardener?

Scott, Bud and Keith - Do you have pictures of what the epoxy looks on the work with both with the Transtint and with it just clear? I would like to give the sister in law an idea of what it will look like when it is done if possible.

I also don’t think I have given you guys a fair picture of what I thought needed Bow ties. I have attached a couple more pics with the grey chalk line of where I will roughly cut the table and two close up pics of where I have questions on the bow ties.
Bow Tie 1 the crack is big enough it is not structurally sound, so I want to bow tie it to make it more rigid. I think this is a no brainer.
Bow Tie #2 is my question. It is cracked most of the way through and if I cut on the gray line, the crack will be exposed. It does seem solid. Thoughts on it this needs any structural support? What if I bowtied it from the backside only.
These two would be in addition to the one Bow tie suggested by Scott.

I also decided to look at flatness of a few other dining room tables just for my own curiosity, (One of which I built and flattened with a belt sander, the other one that was purchased many years ago that I got for free) Both of these tables have around the same amount of cup in them as the slab that I am looking at. I have used these tables for years and never noticed the cup, so the good news is that the flattening part of this project is done. So I think the table is flat enough – Assuming I can get it done before that big slab warps…..

Thanks for all the advice on how to flatten it though. I will keep it in mind for future projects.

Shawn, As for the hand plane I 100% agree, the issue isn’t the tool it is the operator. I tried using a hand plan on a smaller slab to get it flat and smooth. I had marginal results to get it flat, and did end up scarring the wood that required a fair amount of sanding to get out. I have a lot to learn on using a hand plane and I am eager. Just didn’t think this big (And Expensive) slab is the best place to practice….

[Michael E Turner]

Well, after a few months of working on this a few hours a week, about 40 pours of epoxy, I am knocking on the door of getting the table top finished.

Here is what I have learned.
1) I should have moved a lot faster than I did - Since it was a big slab, and I got it in the winter, I didn’t want to move it in the basement where the humidity was 15%. So I moved it to my garage. Well, pregnant wife and two kids, progress was slower than expected (Shocking I know). I did all my flattening then near the end of the epoxy steps, I realized the slap warped again, as it was now middle June, and I was back to flattening it again. I got some practice on the back with my hand plane to get it flat, and let me tell you, I am happy I didn’t use it on the front…..

2) Epoxying was more difficult than I expected. I had never used west system without fairing before and it ran much more than I am used to. Using masking tape backed with packing tape did not prevent leaks. The leaks were not a huge deal, as I found them early and just tossed down wax paper. If I were to do it again, I would use a better tape, and cover my work bench with wax paper before I began. I had issues getting the holes to fill and remain filled, the epoxy would seem to fill into cracks, and holes and I would need to repour. Trying to fill all of the minor surface cracks with the epoxy was hard as the surface tension of the epoxy would not let it go into the small cracks. I even attempted to use a syringe to fill the holes with some moderate success.

3) I am happy I picked up a Rotex sander before I started this project. I spent several hours sanding this piece, and resanding the piece after it warped on me, and the festool certainly went faster than my ROS, left a better finish then my belt sander and extracted almost all of the dust so the garage was not a complete pile of saw dust after I finished it.

I am in the process of putting the final coats of finish on the table. I ended up putting 5 coats of General finishes Arm R seal sealer and 5 coats of the gloss top coat on the front and back of the table. I chose this because I know it is a very durable finish and I have bene happy with it in the past.

Attached are some pictures.

In my travels through the world of Craigslist, I ended up finding a rather expensive wrought iron base that I ended up trading the wood I was going to use for the table legs for. I like this because it gives it the contemporary/rustic contrast I was looking for, (and my wife is due in a couple weeks so, this is a much faster way of getting the table done and off to my brothers dining room…. I am calling this a win all around…)

I was planning on making a clips out of wood to mount the table base to the top and allow the table top to expand and contact without over constraining it, similar to the metal “S” clips you can buy to mount to the table skirt. Anyone see an issue with this method? Anyone have a better suggestion?

Thanks again for everyone’s thoughts suggestions. This was a fun project. Working on convincing the wife we need a new dining room table as I can’t wait to do another one.