Gramercy bow saw is killing me

[Marko Milisavljevic]

I recently got a Gramercy bow saw, and used it for the first time yesterday to cut some 1/2 plywood, a combination of straights and curves (building a skin-on-frame kayak). Can't keep a single stroke going in desired direction without veering off whichever way. Essentially no control. Holding both handles doesn't work because frame will just rotate around and fall down. Holding one handle and frame doesn't work because the other handle will rotate around. Maybe it is designed for 3-handed users? With tight blade, loose, or in-between. Firm grip or relaxed. Same miserable results. It feels I could do better sawing with a live fish. Handles are rotating far too easily. Why is it designed this way? Seems like exact opposite of what would work well. Went back to a cheap coping saw with predictably reliable results. Considering that it got some good reviews, I'll start with assumption that I am the problem. What am I doing wrong?

[ken hatch]

That is not my experience with the saw, if the tension is correct you may have a defective saw or maybe a defective blade. Change the blade, if that doesn't cure the problem send it back to TFWW and let them figure out what is wrong. I expect you are not the problem.

ken

[Bob Glenn]

Are you cutting on the push stroke or pull stroke? I suspect you are cutting with a push stroke. I too, had a problem using a bow saw until I tried using a pull stroke. That seemed to make cutting to the line easier. Give it another try. Good luck

[Jim Matthews]

They're also known as 'turning' saws.

If you have a tensioned blade, and rotate it in the kerf
the blade will track in that direction.

I cut on the push stroke with mine, keeping the workpiece clamped
flat on the benchtop. I walk along and use my legs to drive the blade.

It's a sort of crouching motion.

Have a look at the video of Michael Dunbar in action to get an idea.

http://blip.tv/popular-woodworking-v...dunbar-3650585

[Jonas Baker]

Don't feel bad, I went to a Lie Nielsen event where Gramacy was also set up with all their tools. I tried their bowsaw in some about 3/4 inch thick wood, and I had the same results you did. I could not control the saw. Multiple people used it perfectly right in front of me, so it wasn't the fault of the saw. I have a lot of experience with a variety of saws, so I think there is just a learning curve to using one of these types of saws. Sorry, I can't give you advice on how to have better results, I just want you to know that it isn't just a problem with you or the saw.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

Thanks for suggestions. I only used it late last night so limited time to experiment. I'll try again later with fresher hands and report.

[george wilson]

If the handles rotate too freely,remove them and try dribbling some chalk dust into the holes and reassemble. I have not had this problem,so this is a suggestion only. Or,you might wrap a piece of thin paper around the brass shanks of the handles.

Frame saws are PULL only. Their frames are not made for pushing forces.

Also try looping one finger around the frame while grasping the handle. As a last resort,start looking for a bandsaw!!

[paul cottingham]

Try pull stroke. I couldn't get it to work pull. Love the saw tho' made the kit.

[Kees Heiden]

I have put some rubber washers between the handles and the frame. That makes it much easier for me. The frame doesn't swing around as easilly, but it is still possible to change the position of the frame relative to the blade, without trouble.

That, and lots of practice. It didn't came to me naturally either.

[Mike Holbrook]

First thing I did to my Gramercy Bowsaw was to run a small spokeshave over the corners. Sharp corners are an issue.

I think you may be able to find a helpful article via an online search "Tage Frid Sawing by Hand". Tage was a major proponent of the bowsaw and proper uses. It sounds to me like the OP just does not have the string wound tight enough. Unfortunately the winding stick and string on the Gramercy saws may leave a little room for improvement. I also have a WoodJoy 400mm bowsaw, which is much easier to adjust. Anyone having problems might want to go to the WoodJoy site and look at the winding stick and waxed string Glenn Livingston uses on his saws. The winding stick on the WoodJoy saws works much better, for obvious reasons when you see one.

Another thing to consider is the washers WoodJoy uses in their saw handles are leather. I just looked at my Gramercy and WoodJoy saws hanging together on my shop wall. The handles on the two saws are very similar in size and shape. It just so happens Glenn sells a Bowsaw Handle Set. I think Glenn will either sell you a thicker waxed string or point you in the right direction to find one. I have been thinking about working on the string and winding system on my Gramercy saw. Although proper tension is necessary for proper function of a saw like this, it is relatively easy to wind the string too tight and break the wood frame. In my experience thin strings with small winding sticks tend to bunch up and have problems spreading the tension load properly. The tensioning system on the WoodJoy saws spreads the tension more evenly and securely. The winding stick on the WoodJoy saws slides freely through another piece of wood the string is wrapped around. This two piece winding system allows the winding stick to work on half as well as full turns, another positive, easier to use feature.

If you are looking for an easier to use bowsaw that will saw a straight line you might want to look at the WoodJoy saws. The frames are very sturdy. The handles and winding system are exceptional and they are made to work with easily replaceable Japanese Turbo Cut saw blades. These blades are easy to find and have the excellent hardened teeth found in many Japanese saw blades. There are rip, XX, turning saw and universal blades available for these saws. I find myself using my WoodJoy bowsaw as often as my hand saws. I think it is often easier and faster to use. IMHO (in my humble opinion) the Gramercy saw is designed for making joints and twisty turny cuts like a coping saw, not so much sawing in a straight line. The WoodJoy 400mm saw is a much better general purpose saw IMHO. With the turning/jigging (10mm wide-.394") blade it will make fairly tight turns but still saw straight lines. With a 40mm (1.57") wide Universal blade the 400mm saw has almost 16" of teeth that will rip or XX. The 600mm (23.62") saw provides similar numbers of usable teeth to full size hand saws and can be purchased with rip and XX saw blades that are easily swapped out on the same frame.

[Joel Moskowitz]

Marko,
Please try the following:
Read the instructional material on the website, we have pile of info on using the saw. It works most efficient on the push stroke. Bury the handle in your hand and grasp the cheeks between thumb and forefinger. Remember when turning in a cut you have to continue sawing - otherwise you just twist the blade. Only one hand should be on the saw - the hand holding it. With two hands there is great tendency to jam in the cut. IF all else fails give us a call.

thanks,
joel
TFWW

[John Powers]

I just finished a Kudzucraft Shortshot SOF kayak. cutting those frames without my bandsaw would have been murder.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

How did you cut inside openings? This is what I'm using the bow saw for.

[george wilson]

I always found that cutting on the pull stroke was much better with a turning saw. We used them(which we made) for many years in the instrument maker's shop. But,whatever.

To make an inside cut,drill a hole that the blade can be threaded through. Re attach it and saw.

[Mike Holbrook]

Are you talking about the opening in the hull (multiple holes for tripping or fishing Kayaks maybe)? Maybe you are trying to cut leg room in ribs? I was a Whitewater kayaker for many years, not sure what the term inside openings means? Are you making a cedar stripper or using plywood or planks? If you don't want to buy a bandsaw but you need a tool that can make a long curved cut easier than a bowsaw you might think about a Jigsaw. A jigsaw with a plunging blade can make a long curved cut fairly fast, much faster than a bowsaw. If you want to make a longer cut and do it with hand tools. I think you need a bigger bowsaw with a longer blade. If you just need to make a couple longer cuts one time you might find a fellow woodworker in your area who has a bandsaw. Creekers are often willing to share if you can find one in your area.

The Gramercy saw is a great saw, the blade just is not long or large enough to make long cuts. Guys who make long rip or curved cuts with bowsaws tend to use saws with blades and teeth that are twice or more as big as the Gramercy saw's 12" blade with small coping saw teeth.