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Thread: Blum tandem help/questions

  1. #1

    Blum tandem help/questions

    I'm trying to figure out some details for our kitchen remodel and I'm wavering on drawer slides.

    I used full extension side mount ball bearing slides on the last kitchen remodel. I'm familiar with them and they are easy to install and adjust. But, I don't like the look and we want soft close. Soft close are available for the side mounts but then they are almost as much as the blum tandem with blum option as near as I can tell.

    my questions on the Blums.

    1. Which ones do I need? I'm either going with 1/2 or 5/8 boxes so I think I need the 563H or the 563.

    2. The cabinets will be frameless do I need any other mounting brackets?

    3. It looks like there are options for the locking brackets. I'm thinking more adjustment is better even if it costs an extra buck or two a drawer. Any downside other than cost with the more expensive locking brackets?

    4. How tight are the tolerances for building drawers? I see measurements to the 32nd in the Blum literature and while strive for that is there a little give in the mounting? With side mounts as long as the drawers aren't too wide I could always shim the mount on the cabinet with a washer. Plus, any drawer to long or two short was ok with side mounts as long as it fit in the cabinet.

    5. I searched but couldn't find any drawer width maximums. The boss wants all drawers on the lower cabinets and some of those are 24" wide. I even have a few that are wider. Do I need to go to a 569 or 569h or add some other Blum accessory on drawers more than a certain width?

    6. Do I need a bunch of installation tools? Drilling jig? Can I make a plywood jig to drill the holes on each side to mount the slides?

    7. And finally..... Why don't they make a 23" model so people could get the full usable depth of a 24" cabinet? Seems kind of dumb to me. I'm sure there is a good reason but I just don't see it. Just curious on this one.

    Mike

  2. #2
    Mike,

    (1) I think the difference between 1/2" or 5/8" is a personal preference. We use 5/8" sides at the shop I work at.

    (2) there are brackets available but typically for a framed cabinet. On the frameless just make sure your cabs are true front to back. Not sure if your painting or staining but we use MDF for paint grade and Veneer over MDF for stain grade.

    (3) I'm not sure the model number of the front clips were using but they do have a wheel adjustment which gives you some additional adjustment and I highly recommend them.

    (4) your going to have to get really good tolerances as the sides of the drawer box fit between the side of the glide and runner. The bottom of the box actually sits on the runner so you might have an 1/8" max once seated. You will have to also drill a hole in the back of the box as it holds the drawer.

    (5) I have not had any issues with widths up to about 36" wide so your all good. They are very robust.

    (6) you could come up with a drilling jig system if ur going to use system screws. We use a CNC so we drill for system screws. I think any jig would only be for getting you're height of the glide the same distance from the bottom of the cabinet.

    (7) I know this is not a good answer as I've been in the cabinet business for many many years. "If you find the answer let me know"

    Bill

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    WNY
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    You want the 563H ones. I get them here: http://ahturf.com/store/index.php?ro...duct_id=118260 I really like the depth adjustable locking devices: http://ahturf.com/store/index.php?ro...duct_id=118268 They adjust up/down, L/R, and In/Out. They are the only ones I use now. Building the drawer is no harder than when using side mount drawers, but the key dimension is the width between the sides, not the overall width. If your stock is exactly 1/2" or 5/8" then you can build to the outside dimension, but if it's something in between you need to recalculate the outside dimension or build to the inside dimension. Read the directions and it will be clear what I'm talking about. No issues with drawers much wider than 24". I built some almost 40" wide with 21" slides - no problems; smooth and no racking. I don't use a drilling jig, I just use a self centering drill bit directly in the locking device hole. I mostly build frameless cabinets and I screw the slides directly to the sides with no issues. Why no 23"? Because they would only work with frameless cabinets with full overlay drawers. They would be too long to use with inset drawers in a framelss cabinet, and too long in face frame cabinets using the rear mounting bracket.

    John

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Northwestern Connecticut
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    1) We use the 563H for most drawers, occasionally of the drawers are over 30" wide, and very deep, and will be holding heavy items like pans or plates, we might go up to the heavy duty series, its a judgement call. For your average drawer under 10", 563 series is fine IMO.

    2) No brackets for frameless, and I don't generally bother with them for FF cabinets either, just build in horizontal stringers for shelf banks and screw to the sides, the clips on the back are for cheap factory cabinets and don't hold much weight frankly.


    3)I like the brackets with the side to side wheels, makes drawer front adjustment much easier, and definitely get the ones with bumpers if doing inset. I'm guessing full overlay if frames?

    4)Make your drawers accurately. Tolerances are much more forgiving than with accuride side mounts on width, but any slide system requires close tolerances. Just like doors, do the math, cut the parts, this is cabinet making.

    5)No maximum, just weight. If you are making some drawers for pots, plates or very heavy loads where you are close to the limit might want to go up to the heavy duty series, usually for the deeper lower drawers in a given cabinet. You can mix them up as required.

    6) No. hardest part is drilling the hole in the back accurately for the locater pins on the slides to reference. They sell a $50 jig for this, I made one that works just as well in 10 minutes from scraps that I have used for probably 50 drawers in the home shop? Look at the specs for this, you can concoct a jig to work with your drawer sizes. At work we use the jig, but we hang thousands of drawers a year. Take your pick. Otherwise, I use a vix bit to drill the shelf clips, Plywood gauge blocks to space the drawers on the case sides, thats it.

    7) What John said. Part of the slides wrap the back of the drawer boxes, so you need room for some metal parts behind the drawer. IME you wont miss that 1", everything you need to put in drawers will still fit. I make inset cabinets with 1" doors and drawer fronts, 1/2" backs....these slides still work. Very universal.
    "A good miter set up is like yoga pants: it makes everyone's butts look good." Prashun Patel

  5. #5
    Since you are making a frameless cabinet you can use the 563's, you don't need the 563H unless you plan on using the rear bracket. You get a small price savings using the non H version.

    To get the width of your drawers use this formula

    Opening width minus (1.656-(side thickness x2)

    ie: Your opening is 18.125" wide. Your wood thickness is .580"

    18.125-(1.656-(.580x2) = 17.629"

    So the outside dimension of your drawer needs to be 17 5/8" wide. The .004" won't make a difference. I made an Excel Spreadsheet for drawer widths.

    As for locks, it depends on how you will be setting up your drawer fronts. Are you using a tight margin like 2 or 3mm? If yes then use the ones with the side to side adjustment. If you are using a larger spacing like 3/4" then you can get away with the non adjustable locks. The locks that have the in/out adjustment add another buck or so to the price of the locks and are really only needed if you are making a faceframe inset drawer front. It's a waste of money on an overlay setup.

    The only jig you need is for the hole in the rear of the drawer. I made my own. For drilling holes for the slides I just use a VIX bit.

    My normal setback for the slide is 4mm in an Euro cabinet overlay setup. The slides have a slot and I suggest you put your first drawer in at 4mm and then test how it works. If it's good then you know what the setup is. If not, then adjust until it does and write it down.

    If you are using the locks with the in/out adjustment then the setback is about 1/4", maybe a bit bigger.

  6. #6
    Thanks everyone for clearing things up. They offer so many options and accessories it was a little confusing.

    The drawers are full overlay so I'm thinking the in/out locking devices probably aren't necessary.

    We will have some drawers that end up with pots and pans and dishes so they might be pushing the 563 weight limit. But, right now I don't know which drawers will end up with the heavy stuff. I have a pretty good idea but are the 563 and 569 interchangeable? I.e. Can I swap out the 569 for 563 pretty easily by just mounting the new slides and no changes to the drawer?

    Thanks again to all for the help.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Northwestern Connecticut
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    If I'm reading my blum book right, the drawer build requirements are the same, so you could order the slides, build the drawers and pick where you want to hang them later. For full overlay I wouldn't other with the in/out adjustments, no need at all, but I would get the left/right adjustable clips if the design is euro cabs with tight reveals as it sounds it is....tight being as Leo mentioned above 2-3mm range. If the gaps are wider....make them smaller or it looks terrible!
    "A good miter set up is like yoga pants: it makes everyone's butts look good." Prashun Patel

  8. #8
    I'll order at least a few 569 slides and install them where I think the heavy stuff is going. If my wife decides to put more heavy stuff in other drawers then I'll buy some more and swap them out.

    Yes, as tight a reveal as I have the nerve to tackle.

    I'm thinking I should make all the boxes, mount the slides and then measure all the drawer widths based on the actual slide width. Is that how most people do this? Seems the least likely way to avoid remaking some drawer boxes.

    It sounds like I should invest in a metric tape and ruler just to make things easier. Converting metric to imperial seems like an easy way to make some math mistakes or introduce some rounding errors.

    Thanks again for the help.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    McKinney, TX
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    2,063
    Making the cabinet boxes first then the drawers is a good idea. When you get to mounting the slides the bottom one sits on the inside bottom of the cabinet. I make a set of spacers for mounting the slides so I can start at the top one sitting on a spacer then go to the next one down and so on. This eliminates a lot of measuring and the potential for error.
    The widths of the drawer is important and if you have a problem making them to close tolerances shoot for slightly small and shim the slide on the sides. In an overlay application I have seen the slides installed just a bit farther back than the instruction specify so the back of the drawer front actually touches the cabinet side before the drawer closes completely. This insures that all fronts are in the same plane.
    Steve Jenkins, McKinney, TX. 469 742-9694
    Always use the word "impossible" with extreme caution

  10. #10
    all good advice here - i'll just add my tip for installation. first make a small jig for the slide setback so they all end up inset the same distance. Start with top drawer - rip a plywood scrap whose width is the height of the bottom of the slide - set slide on top of edge of plywood, use small jig for setback, vix bit for 2 holes in the middle of 2 of the elongated mounting holes on the slides. 2 screws are enough to hold the slide in place while the empty drawer is test fitted - having them mounted in the elongated holes lets you tweak on side or another in the horizontal plane. I have never had issues with vertical adjustment. happy with drawer fit then use vix to center a few more screws & install them. Rip the plywood scrap for the next lower slide & repeat. if you can make square cases and drawers to 1/8" (I struggle with both on occasion) these things are easier to use than the side mounts i have tried.

  11. #11
    Here's my hole jig for the rear of the drawer. Well used. The tape holds a metal washer and a small spacer to keep proper depth of the hole. A hole on each side to make the jig universal and it just sits in the notch on the bottom of the bottom. The only thing you could do was use the wrong hole. And I wrote a note on the jig about what hole needs to be used.


  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Since this is your first time with them, get at least one set of slides before you build the drawers, and make a drawer out of scrap wood to get all the details and dimensions just right taking your measurements right off the slide. Use a scrap piece of plywood as a gauge to mount the slide to the carcass. Cut it so you set the top slides on top of that piece of plywood, and then rip it shorter in height for each of the next lower ones. It beats trying to measure and mark.
    Last edited by Tom M King; 03-31-2015 at 4:26 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Berrevoets View Post
    I'm thinking I should make all the boxes, mount the slides and then measure all the drawer widths based on the actual slide width. Is that how most people do this?

    No, not really. I do like to make the boxes first when ever possible and measure the actual openings, but I'm always building from a plan or story pole, and I build the cabinets exactly as shown on the plan. Often somebody else in the shop is building the drawer boxes possible before the cabs are assembled, possible they are outsourced. Doesn't matter really, you have the liberty to work in the order you prefer, but build accurately and all will go well. Blum slides are a lot more forgiving than some others of minor deviations, but stay as close as possible to the formula they give for best results. You can hang the slides when its convenient in your process, and I have seen guys mount them then measure slides but that can be a problem depending on how you make your drawers, as it give you a number you can't really use directly.


    All that said, its really quite simple despite Blum's best efforts to make it seem more complicated. The 563 slides allow you to use a range of drawer box side thickness, with 5/8" being the maximum. You can make 3/4" sides, but that requires a different slide number. Because the slides hug the inside bottom edge of the drawer boxes, and because blum doesn't know what thickness sides you are using, and because the slides width is a fixed number, they calculate everything from the inside of the drawer box....unfortunately most drawer box formulas are calculated from the outside of the box, so thats a little bass akwards mentally.

    You take the width of the opening the drawer will fit in...subtract 42MM (1.653" or just heavy of 1 5/8"), thats the INSIDE of your drawer box. Add twice your drawer thickness to that number, thats your drawer box OUTSIDE width. Really clear no?



    But is really is a bit simpler still for non metric types. If your drawers are 5/8" thick, Subtract 3/8" from your opening, thats your drawer box width. If your drawers sides are 1/2", subtract 5/8" from the opening, thats your drawer box width. Or get a metric tape, make the sides a metric number, and do the same calculations in metrics. Either way, do all the adding and subtracting to come up with a simpler formula. Opening minus a single number equals drawer box outer width.
    "A good miter set up is like yoga pants: it makes everyone's butts look good." Prashun Patel

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    I found that if you make the drawers 5/8" vs 1/2", you need to set the slide further back in to the cabinet. All of my slides had to be adjusted by 1/8". So, I would recommend initially mounting the slides with the slots vs round holes. Once you see that everything works, throw a few more screws in each slide.

  15. #15
    This is what I love about all of you guys. This wasn't my post, but I am going through the same situation with Blums for the first time. Jigs, Excel spreadsheets, low-cost vendor, install tips......What more could I ask for. Thanks to all of you.

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