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Thread: Woodturning Deaths?

  1. #1
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    Woodturning Deaths?

    Somehow, a flurry of dialogue over "the inherent possibility of serious injury" in Woodturning. Okay, okay, I understand the need for eye and lung protection, but as long as we stay clear of the line of fire (the area directly opposite the axis of the wood) I think we're safer than riding in a car.

    How many woodturning deaths actually occur each year? I searched the Internet and could only find one or two. Yes, we have to use common sense and work smart, but I don't think we need to live in fear.

    Russell Neyman
    .


    Writer - Woodworker - Historian
    Instructor: The Woodturning Experience
    Puget Sound, Washington State


    "Outside of a dog, there's nothing better than a good book; inside of a dog it's too dark to read."

  2. #2
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    While I agree not many deaths, I would consider more than just eye and lung and get a good face shield that is impact rated. (Un)common sense can prevent or lessen most accidents, unfortunately it only takes an instant of inattention to have serious results. Preventative issues like moving the off switch, or adding a new one help too.

    I tried moving mine, but the switch messed up and I had to put back the original. I now routinely turn off the machine with the butt end of my gouge when working from the rear of the machine rather than crossing the 'line of fire' with my body.
    Retired - when every day is Saturday (unless it's Sunday).

  3. #3
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    Might not be a bad way to go, if it happens on your 100th birthday.

  4. #4
    The only I can remember hearing about was that female turner a couple of three years ago. It would seem to me that, for the way most people turn, the risk of actual death is very low, borderline "fluke" territory. However, the risk of serious injury (loss of an eye, head trauma, etc.) is very high.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Stephen View Post
    The only I can remember hearing about was that female turner a couple of three years ago. It would seem to me that, for the way most people turn, the risk of actual death is very low, borderline "fluke" territory. However, the risk of serious injury (loss of an eye, head trauma, etc.) is very high.
    That would be the Grad Student that got her hair tangled and the action strangled her? If so it was more like four years ago. Just after that the DW got a couple strands of hers caught in the chuck, she is much more careful now.
    It's been over 2 years since I heard of a death, but before that it was every year or two for the about the last 10 years. All but the Grad Student were head injuries of one sort or another.
    Every one of those the victims did not wear a face-shield.
    Making sawdust mostly, sometimes I get something else, but that is more by accident then design.

  6. #6
    seems to me there was a Tennessee turner who died while turning some sort of burl which exploded

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Lindberg View Post
    That would be the Grad Student that got her hair tangled and the action strangled her? If so it was more like four years ago. Just after that the DW got a couple strands of hers caught in the chuck, she is much more careful now.
    It's been over 2 years since I heard of a death, but before that it was every year or two for the about the last 10 years. All but the Grad Student were head injuries of one sort or another.
    Every one of those the victims did not wear a face-shield.
    Hadn't heard about that one. No, the one I am thinking of was an older female turner who was very popular. Her piece either exploded are came off the lathe and hit her in the head. I seem to recall her husband found her some time after it had happened. I didn't know her personally so her name escapes me at the moment.

    Edit:

    Found it. It was in 2011. Her name was Joan Kelly. There was a thread over on the AAW forum about it. From that thread:

    Many of you are already aware of Joan's dreadful accident on May 4, but I will give a brief account: Joan was turning a heavy bowl blank on her lathe. It flew to pieces and one large piece struck her in the face and forehead causing profuse bleeding and underlying injuries to the face and skull. I found her within what must have been a very few minutes, called an ambulance, and applied a compress. She got to the hospital having lost a great deal of blood and requiring transfusions. She immediately went into surgery. Over the last ten days, her blood pressure and other vital signs have generally stabilized. We hope that the swelling is decreasing, and Tuesday a lumbar puncture lowered the pressure on the brain dramatically. We pray for a good recovery, but she has not yet regained consciousness. She is receiving outstanding medical care.
    I cannot begin to express my gratitude for the incredible outpouring of prayer, sympathy and assistance that has already occurred. Many of you, plus Joan's many other friends, have blessed us with prayers, assistance and love. The community on Joan's beloved Ocracoke Island have sent us their love. The contra dancers are praying for her, including dancers in Little Rock and Huntsville, who were recently delighted by her talented calling. Close friends in Joan's jazzercise and yoga groups have been on hand. Clergy from Idlewild and a number of churches have prayed with us. Dear friends have been with us daily, offering prayer, food, sympathy and greatly appreciated medical expertise. Whatever remains ahead, Joan should know that she is admired, treasured and loved to a degree that exceeds her wildest dreams. For my own part, I am humbled by the staunchness and devotion of so many wonderful people. For the last few days, some lines of Yeats have been running through my head: "Think where man's glory most begins and ends, And say my glory was I had such friends."
    Last edited by Justin Stephen; 04-01-2015 at 4:33 PM.

  8. #8
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    If I recall correctly, she was wearing eye protection but not a face shield. I doubt that a cheap shield of the type sold at Lowes or HomeDepot would have helped.
    Retired - when every day is Saturday (unless it's Sunday).

  9. #9
    There were at least 3 very serious accidents in a short period a year or two ago. Kind of like driving a car, you always have to pay attention, and most of the time that will keep you fairly safe. I never trust any piece of wood till it is finish turned, sanded and finished.

    robo hippy

  10. #10
    Common sense only goes far as having some experience with what you are doing. If very little or no experience one has no common sense on an action.

    I heard of two accidents recently in which both turners are at least intermediate turners. One has turned many bowls using a point center so to him it works and is fine. Until he put an exceptionally oval dried blank on his lathe and put to much pressure on the blank and as he was truing the outside the point split the bowl. He was not hit but was very shaken for as he explained he could have been hit. Took out his light over the lathe and pieces went around. The other was also turning a dried blank and he did not tighten his sliding head stock down tight enough and it moved back while truing the outside of the bowl. Bowl came off the lathe and bounced around a bit. One can say they did not use common sense or maybe sometimes we get complacent because we have done it this way a hundred times without fail. Moral of the stories is double check your lathe settings even if you think your in the habit of turning speed down when you leave the shop or etc. BTW they were both turning at what would be considered safe speeds.

    I hear so many talk about the line of fire and then you see videos and read how people are rough turning or truing a bowl. When turning right handed you cannot help but put your body in the line of fire when turning the outside of a bowl. Granted if it is a bowl 12" and under or a not very deep bowl you can stay out of the line pretty well. If turning a larger bowl or deeper bowl it is very difficult to keep your body out of the line as you come up the side of the bowl from the base to rim, right handed. This is especially true if you are using a "roughing cut" which many use a pull cut and this puts your body directly in the line of fire. There are ways to rough turn without putting any of your body in the line of fire which learning to turn left handed is one way, for roughing. Once a bowl is trued and inspected then putting your body in the line of fire intermittently is generally OK and unavoidable.

    Be safe out there. Maintain about 10% fear of the piece of equipment your operating and for the most part this will keep you alert to think about what you are doing and is it safe. To much fear and you overcompensate by holding things with a death grip or etc. It is when you no longer have any fear when it will get you.

  11. #11
    The young woman who died at the lathe was on a metal lathe, and her long hair got caught on the lathe, and she was strangled. She was also working alone. There were 2 incidents of pieces that blew up, and killed 2 different turners. I believe one was related to not checking the speed first. There have been a number of times when questionable pieces have exploded and done serious damage. Some times it is ignorance, some times just being careless or not paying attention. So, in part, know your limits, and be alert.

    I do have a 'How to stand out of the line of fire when turning bowls' video clip in my brain percolating. Need to get it done. It involves figuring out how to put into a demonstration what I do by habit without thinking about it.

    robo hippy

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Neyman View Post
    Somehow, a flurry of dialogue over "the inherent possibility of serious injury" in Woodturning. Okay, okay, I understand the need for eye and lung protection, but as long as we stay clear of the line of fire (the area directly opposite the axis of the wood) I think we're safer than riding in a car.

    How many woodturning deaths actually occur each year? I searched the Internet and could only find one or two. Yes, we have to use common sense and work smart, but I don't think we need to live in fear.
    An Internet search doesn't mean anything. I know several members of my club who have had serious accidents and you won't find anything about it on the Internet mostly because 99% od woodturners do not participate in turning forums. I agree with what Dale Bonertz said about no experience equates to no common sense. Your idea about staying out of the line of fire removing all risk is another mistaken notion. Definitely stay out of the line of fire, but the trajectory of something coming off the lathe will usually be altered by contact with something before it leaves the lathe. That expands the line of fire considerably. This means that you need to do things safely and not just assume that by standing out of the line of fire you are safe. Your face shield is not equivalent to Star Trek shields -- in fact they are hardly good for more that just small flying particles that could put out an eye. If you want to get an idea of what it feels like to get hit by a large piece of wood, try dropping it on your bare foot from mid chest height. Then multiply that by about a factor of ten. You probably wouldn't want to get hit with kind of force.
    Bill

  13. #13
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    Under the heading of for what it is worth. A friend's wife who is a retired plaintiff's attorney mentioned the other day that wood lathes were the single most "dangerous" tools in the wood shop. We speculated that while I presumed that table and chop saws were the worse, that loss of a finger or two is real cheap compared to skull and facial injuries. In her world dangerous = expensive. So there may be more incidents with saws but more dollars at the lathe.

  14. #14
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    This is my opinion, so don't take it as an insult. I really don't care how others practice safety - what you do is your business, not mine. However, I don't want to see anyone get hurt. We are responsible for our own safety and no one is there to watch over us.

    I work in industry and our basic philosophy is that all accidents are preventable. It really boils down to risk management and not just the risk of death. The risk of being killed turning on a lathe is probably low, but I am more concerned with any accident that takes time away from the family, shop and other activities (such as being able to perform my day job). People tend to have the Superman syndrome - it won't happen to me. Staying out of the line of fire is not highly safe because it is not positive protection. One distraction and you can easily get into the line of fire.

    I prefer to have more positive protection. Not only do I use lung protection and a shield, I also use the guard that came with the lathe. I tend to turn a lot of burls, so things come off much more frequently than if turning normal clear wood. Mostly, I use the guard when roughing and starting the finish turn. Once I am making the final finish cuts, I want the guard out of the way so I can see the form uninterrupted by the guard. Guards could be designed better, but until we actually see the value and are willing to pay for a better guard, I doubt we will see any improvements. At this point, I try to practice the line of fire method and normally by this point any weak spot has reared its ugly head and has been remedied. On burls, I use epoxy - instant coffee glue to hold things together. You still need to watch for logs with wind shake or other cracks and weak spots, even if the wood appears to be clear.

    I also think about what I am going to do. Is it safe? Is there a safer way?

    I really think that the equipment manufacturers should work with us turners and develop a more user friendly guard. If not, maybe engineers like me should take something like this on as a side project and see what we can be develop.

    As a side note, my family was in logging for 75 years and I started cutting when I was 15. Us supermen back then wore hard hats when cutting hardwood, but no chaps, face screens, hearing protection, or safety boots. Now, I wont touch my chain saw without all of this gear. The chain brake must also function properly.
    Thank you,

    Rich Aldrich

    65 miles SE of Steve Schlumpf.

    "To a pessimist, the glass is half empty; to an optimist, the glass is half full; to an engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be." Unknown author



  15. #15
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    I think some of the current angst may come from the Schwarz. In his latest video, he says he wears face protection because at least one turner is killed every year presumably by face strikes. Ironically, the face shield he uses in the vid doesn't look like it could stop anything.

    ok, well, maybe a sneeze.
    Last edited by paul cottingham; 04-04-2015 at 1:56 AM.
    Paul

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