Kiridashi question

[Matt Lau]

After being stuck in the office for waaay too long, I'm thinking of getting a nice kiridashi and making stuff. I noticed that my guitar building friend Michihiro keeps his by his side always, so I figure that it'd be useful.

A few questions:

1. Where does a Kiridashi excel?
I have a mill knife for rough flat cuts and marking. I have a medium blade from North Bay Forge. I have a whole lot of bard Parker blades on order because of my dental practice.
On the other hand, I have a pair of kurikogatana for shaping the heels and transitions of guitar necks.

2. Who makes a really great one? How much should I spend? Any size, tips, etc?

I was looking at Tools-Japan.com and Nakaya Heiji's web page. I've bought a gyuto from Heiji before, and it's sharper than my Veritas plane blade.

[Stanley Covington]

Because of the single bevel, which causes the cutting edge to be pushed off of a straight-line course, kiridashi are at times hard to control in deep cuts. So they are best suited to cutting thin shavings and chips from a workpiece's surface.

If the bevel is sharpened very flat, the kiridashi will cut a precisely flat and straight surface. If the bevel is rounded over, it is more useful for cutting curves and scoops Those who do a lot of carving with them usually have matching left and right handed kiridashi. This is the rule for kurigata. A flat bevel is easier and quicker to sharpen, so a flat bevel is the default for most people.

A well made kiridashi can be made very sharp very quickly, and because a simple, very sharp knife close at hand is always useful to a woodworker, they are an essential tool.

Most kiridashi available nowadays are made from rikizai (pre-laminated commercial steel developed for making inexpensive kitchen knives). A hand-forged kiridashi will cut better, but most people won't be able to tell the difference.

Professional wood carvers in Japan, and most especially those who carve religious structures, statues, and related fixtures and decoration, frequently leave the wood's surface unfinished (shiraki) and therefore are very particular about the finish left by their kiridashi. Traditional tategushi (door and shoji makers) often need the same finish from their kiridashi when working fine details. These types of craftsmen demand high-quality kiridashi, and are willing to pay hundreds of dollars for a good one. Often they have them custom made to fit their hands and purposes.

Some kiridashi are ridiculously expensive. Some are forged with fanciful shapes. People collect them, and so it is hard to judge quality simply from price.

The last kiridashi I had made for me were by Konobu here in Tokyo. He does excellent work. There are other blacksmiths that hand forge high quality kiridashi, but I don't know what you can get outside Japan.

Stan

[David Wong]

Very informative. Thank you...

[Derek Cohen]

After being stuck in the office for waaay too long, I'm thinking of getting a nice kiridashi and making stuff. I noticed that my guitar building friend Michihiro keeps his by his side always, so I figure that it'd be useful.

A few questions:

1. Where does a Kiridashi excel?
I have a mill knife for rough flat cuts and marking. I have a medium blade from North Bay Forge. I have a whole lot of bard Parker blades on order because of my dental practice.
On the other hand, I have a pair of kurikogatana for shaping the heels and transitions of guitar necks.

2. Who makes a really great one? How much should I spend? Any size, tips, etc?

I was looking at Tools-Japan.com and Nakaya Heiji's web page. I've bought a gyuto from Heiji before, and it's sharper than my Veritas plane blade.

Hi Matt

I have used a variety of knives for marking out - there was a thread very recently in which I posted a few knives, one was a Kiridashi I set into a handle. I also have a skinny Kiridashi. This is akin to a scalpel with a long registration area.



Note that I ground a second, smaller bevel so that the knive could be used on left- and right sides of a fence. The bevel is low, about 25 degrees, which creates a very sharp, penetrating edge. That is what I want for this particular knife - it is not intended for heavy duty work (see below). It is inbetween a dovetail knive and a heavy duty knife.

It was used here to cut through blue tape in making the joints for a chair ...



There are wider blades available. Frankly, the reason I do not use them much is that they are not as comfortable to hold as a standard knife. For this situation, the set up I have works well.

For heavy duty use ...



These knives were quite cheap. I purchased them on eBay a good many years ago, so I cannot recall their names, vndors or prices.

Regard from Perth

Derek

[Stanley Covington]

This is one of my favorite kiridashi. By Tsukemaru. Blue Paper Steel.

Good balance of thickness, weight and width. The ura is a bit unusual, but is the hallmark of a hand-forged kiridashi and necessary when the ura side is not flat.

Stan

[Matt Lau]

Wow!

Thanks for the replies:
-Stan, I'd started with a kiridashi from Japan woodworker that was rikizai, just like Derek's.
The edge would fail at certain moments--cutting a profile in a mahogany guitar rib, etc.
I'd noticed my friend having no trouble with his hand forged one (of course he's a far better craftsman).
Partly, I'm looking for something reliable and well made for cutting...like one hell of a violin knife.

I'm thinking of getting one from Nakaya Heiji with his special swedish steel.
As a sawsmith, I find his knife (at least kitchen knife) to be at the bleeding edge of sharp, with very slight microfracturing at first cut--and great steel after first sharpening.

Would you recommend Konobu instead?
Is there a way to order aside from Japan-tool.com?

How does Baishinshi rate?

-Derek, thanks for all your excellent posts and projects.
You're an inspiration for me.

I'll pull out my marking knife sometime.

[Jim Matthews]

If you go with such finely made marking knives,
have a fixed place for it to be stored.

If your shop looks like mine, steel like this
will inevitably get buried under shavings.

I use a fine paring knife from Target.
Good steel - very thin and keeps a sharp tip.

My marking has been really accurate since I saw
Alan Little using one (without comment) in his
"Askwoodman" videos.

[Pat Barry]

If you go with such finely made marking knives,
have a fixed place for it to be stored.

If your shop looks like mine, steel like this
will inevitably get buried under shavings.

I use a fine paring knife from Target.
Good steel - very thin and keeps a sharp tip.

My marking has been really accurate since I saw
Alan Little using one (without comment) in his
"Askwoodman" videos.

Jim, It seems every post you make reminds me of poetry. Not sure if this is iambic pentameter or whatever but I'm always looking for rhyming words at the end of each line, ie: Target and sharp tip. Even when they don't rhyme I try to make them sound like they do. LOL

[Jim Matthews]

There once was a man from North Hampton who, gluing boards just cramped 'em...

[Jim Koepke]

My first thought on seeing the tittle of this thread was it was about the Kirdashians.

jtk

[Matt Lau]

Jim, thanks for bringing me back down to planet earth.

You just reminded me that I have a lot more things to prioritize over a fancy kiridashi!

FWIW, I've been using a mill knife blade for my marking tasks.
For $7..50, it's pretty amazing, but not as pretty as Stan's kiridashi.

[Stanley Covington]

Wow!

Thanks for the replies:
-Stan, I'd started with a kiridashi from Japan woodworker that was rikizai, just like Derek's.
The edge would fail at certain moments--cutting a profile in a mahogany guitar rib, etc.
I'd noticed my friend having no trouble with his hand forged one (of course he's a far better craftsman).
Partly, I'm looking for something reliable and well made for cutting...like one hell of a violin knife.

I'm thinking of getting one from Nakaya Heiji with his special swedish steel.
As a sawsmith, I find his knife (at least kitchen knife) to be at the bleeding edge of sharp, with very slight microfracturing at first cut--and great steel after first sharpening.

Would you recommend Konobu instead?
Is there a way to order aside from Japan-tool.com?

Matt:

The kiridashi is the easiest of all laminated steel tools to make, but it still requires careful quality control.

Even cheap ones can work very well indeed.

If your friend's tool has a crumbly edge, it is likely it is either too hard, or the bevel angle is too low. By using a very high angle, the extra-hard ones can be used for shaving and deburring mild steel, such as when setting up chisels. But a too-soft knife is always irritating, IMO.

Konobu makes a great kiridashi. He works about an hour from where I live, so I go to his forge to order mine. I currently have an order for 20 kiridashi with him now, but have no idea when they will be done. I don't know anyone that stocks his products.

Stan

[Matt Lau]

That's a LOT of kiridashi!

What do you do with all of them?

Matt:

The kiridashi is the easiest of all laminated steel tools to make, but it still requires careful quality control.

Even cheap ones can work very well indeed.

If your friend's tool has a crumbly edge, it is likely it is either too hard, or the bevel angle is too low. By using a very high angle, the extra-hard ones can be used for shaving and deburring mild steel, such as when setting up chisels. But a too-soft knife is always irritating, IMO.

Konobu makes a great kiridashi. He works about an hour from where I live, so I go to his forge to order mine. I currently have an order for 20 kiridashi with him now, but have no idea when they will be done. I don't know anyone that stocks his products.

Stan

[Stanley Covington]

I sell them.

Stan

That's a LOT of kiridashi!

What do you do with all of them?