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Mike
Thank you for this thread.
I have two coopered doors to make for a bath vanity I started awhile back.
I've thought of doing it a few ways. Using bending ply, which I probably will do. Using a bead and flute bit set, or cutting the angles like you did. I haven't decided which yet.
The other part I haven't decided on is whether or not the doors will be one flat plane, or "raised panel".
My question is how do you approach the rails and stiles?
"The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)
[OP]
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I've never done a curved door in rail and stile. I'm just thinking about it now so this is half baked, but I might make the rails as laminate bent pieces and shape the stiles to match the curve with a hand plane. Then for the panel, I'd probably have to make it flat (not really raised) and use something like bending ply.Originally Posted by Mike Cutler
I just don't have any good idea how to make a curved raised panel, except maybe coopering it. But raising a curved panel is a mystery to me. Seems it would be really difficult passing the curved part over a raised panel bit. I suppose it could be done, however - with a lot of small bites.
Let us know what you decide to do. It's something I never thought of.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
[OP]
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I'm making progress on the coopered doors. It's a more difficult project than I first expected but it seems to be coming out all right. All I've done so far is the main body of the cabinet. I still have to do the top and base. Right now, I don't have a clue what I'm going to do for the top. I know it will be veneer but I don't know what design yet. I'll come up with something.
Here's a view of the front of the cabinet with the doors closed.
Corner-Table-02.jpg
And here's a view from the front with the doors open.
Corner-Table-03.jpg
A slightly different view from the front, looking down on the unit.
Corner-Table-04.jpg
And a closeup of one of the exterior panels. I got a lot of reflection in this pix.
Corner-Table-05.jpg
It's been a challenging project - getting the doors to line up and fit tightly, doing all the veneer and getting it to line up (I missed the alignment just a small amount - you can see it in the pictures). 90% of the work on the front veneer was in getting those curved banding pieces in each corner.
I don't know whether I'll do the top or base next. The base will require that I laminate bend for the front curve so that will be a challenge to get it to match the curve on the cabinet exactly.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
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I had a few curved projects, one vanity and 9 entryways last summer, did a lot of looking and experimenting on the subject. Some people keep the stiles flat, and that can work well as long as you adjust the angle of the edge that meets the rails so the stiles face remains tangent to the curve of the door in plan. I devised a ratio by using the circumference formula, basically solving for "degrees of radius per inch of travel" and then created this bevel angle on the stiles edge before sticking it. You also have to cock the stile up off the table so the stiles edge is in plane with the fence of the router or shaper. The other approach is to actually cooper the stiles, and that still requires adjusting the "spring angle" of the stile/rail meeting, but also involves truly making curved stiles with a pendulum type jig such as might be used for guitar necks, takes two jigs, one for the concave, one for the convex. Or you get a molder and two sets of knives....which makes sense if you are doing LOTS of the same door?
For the raised panel some use a vertical cutter, and that approach seems simpler to me, you just have to support the panel through its travel, the curves on tight cabinet doors will almost support them selves, you just need a curved fence to keep them from tipping, the other two edges get run as straights essentially. Or you can make a carriage to support the panel complete through its radius and use a horizontal cutter from below.
There is an excellent photo essay over on lumberjocks done by a pro cabinet maker that does a lot of curved cope and stick panels, I'm happy to send you a link in a pm if you want it but can't post that here due to TOS, here is another less picture heavy demo of a similar subject, different approaches to the inherent problems from each person.
http://www.miterclamp.com/radius/pag...ionSection.htm
"A good miter set up is like yoga pants: it makes everyone's butts look good." Prashun Patel
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Yeah, they could have been done some other way, but there is gravity to doing it an old way and avoiding someone later
chipping the veneer and discovering it's "just plywood". I do have one different criticism,a small one. To me the design
would be a little stronger without the inside of the doors veneered similar to,but weaker than the beautiful and interesting
front. Having both makes it impossible for me to see the front with the same solidity and specialness of just a patterned
face. ..but if give it to me ,I will sure try to adjust !
Last edited by Mel Fulks; 05-04-2015 at 9:59 PM. Reason: spelling
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I've had other obligations for the past month or so and am just getting back to this project. I built the base for it.
CornerCabinet01.jpg
One thing I discovered about doing this corner cabinet - with the curved front - is that it has a number of complex pieces. And the base was a puzzle for me for a while. One was how to do the curved front so that it matches the curve of the doors - accurately. I thought about doing laminate bending for that section but it's really difficult to get a laminate bent part to come out of the press with exactly the right curve. Seems there's always some springback.
So I laid up some wood to create a thick section, as thick as the curve comes out. Then I sat the cabinet on top of that and traced the curve. I wanted it to protrude enough that I could put a profile on the base so I had to move the curve out that much. Then I cut the curve on the bandsaw and sanded it smooth.
Next, I veneered the front and cut the profile. All that was pretty straightforward. The next step was to figure out the angles for the cuts of the base pieces so that they'd miter together. The back was easy. The two sides meet at 90 degrees so the cut is 45. But what do I do where the sides meet the curved front? And what does an angle mean when you have a curved reference surface?
I finally solved the problem and I want to explain it here. See the diagram.
CornerCabinet02.jpg
If you have a square box, the cuts on each side piece will be 45 degrees - and here's the important thing - the cuts will line up across the box.
I realized that what I was doing was replacing two sides with the curved front piece. So the joints will line up. The cut on the side pieces is 45 degrees. But the curved piece needs a flat base across the back of the curve. And a flat back can be achieved on the jointer.
And that's how the base went together. I had to measure very accurately in order to get the same reveal all around so it took me quite a while - measuring, trimming, and then trial fitting of the base (held together with a strap clamp) to check the reveal all around. But at least I could get it done.
Here's a view into the bottom. Things aren't as neat here as in the visible parts of the project.
CornerCabinet03.jpg
Next, I'l do the top. I received the veneer for what I want to do - now I just have to do it.
Mike
Last edited by Mike Henderson; 06-23-2015 at 9:13 PM.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
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Hi Mike,Looking good.Making the base out of a solid piece was a good choice.Since you didn't have a form you could use from the doors.I bet the top is going to be nice.hope it's not too hot for out in the shop.Next week they are calling for monsoon moisture.Not sure if that affects you too much.I won't be doing any resawing.Thanks for sharing your work. Andrew
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Mike, have you looked at any of Krenov's books?
http://www.amazon.com/Fine-Art-Cabin...+Cabinetmaking
[OP]
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Yes, I did read a couple of his books. Why do you ask?
Mike
Last edited by Mike Henderson; 06-24-2015 at 11:14 AM.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
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Beautiful work Mike. For an inside router pendulum of 16" radius [shown in black] try a bit such as a 3/8" Radius Round Nose Bit mounted in a router [motor only]. The shop-built base could have the router axis angle offset to provide clearance from the pivot axle for an even smaller radius [shown in blue @8"].cooper-inside.pdf
cooper-inside.JPG
Last edited by Paul Murphy; 06-24-2015 at 10:23 AM.
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Very nice Mike, you have the patience of a god!
Alternative method:
When I had my old Porter jointer I got a job with a ton of curved doors, had to be solid wood. I ground a set of knives for the Porter with the curves, inside and outside and a sled to run them through on. You can do it with a normal jointer as well because the small segment of a curve has little projection. The tables on the Porter slid back for that purpose, but on many jointers it is still a possibility by replacing the aluminum inserts at the head. I just looked at my MiniMax and I could pull it off on that one as well.
Anyway.... I then made a sled with the curve the outside radius of the finished door for the tablesaw that held two pieces at a time, centered on the blade. I rigged up toggle clamps to hold them in place and using a hollow ground plane blade shaved both curve sections at on time, numbered both halves, rinse and repeat till a door was done. This way the miters were perfect for the curve I wanted to end up with without any room for error.
Of course thats a lot of setup for two doors, but there may be an idea in there you can use.
Larry
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Well, I finally got around to making the top for this cabinet. All it has on it right now is some wax free shellac. I'll have to put lacquer on it later - maybe in a few days. Here's a view looking down on it. I used mahogany for the substrate and it's lighter right now than the veneer. But in a short while it will darken and color match the veneer.
Table-top-01.jpg
It consists of four pieces of crotch walnut with dyed white stringing, and a border of figured mahogany. The crotch walnut was fairly expensive so cutting it was somewhat scary.
And here's a view of the cabinet with the top set on it. The picture is not very good.
Table-top-02.jpg
I next have to figure out how to keep the doors closed - I'd like to use magnets in some way - and in what handles to put on it. I'll probably go with some very unobtrusive handles.
But it's getting close. And a good thing, too. My wife was getting sick of the cabinet in the house without any top (I didn't want to leave it in the shop because I'd ding it).
Mike
[Laying the veneer for the top was a fairly complex veneer job. Although I had a number of other projects that kept me from working on this project, I think maybe I was also putting it off because of how difficult a project it was and I was afraid I'd screw it up. While it has a few small "defects", overall I'm pleased with the way it came out.]
Last edited by Mike Henderson; 07-25-2015 at 12:14 AM.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
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Beautiful sir. Truly impressive work. Thanks for sharing.
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I like it.The wood and proportions are very pleasing to my eyes.Now in going to try my hand at a corner cabinet.Always up for a new challage.Thanks for sharing with us Mike.
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Very nice work, thanks for sharing.
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