Live Edge Split Fix...please help!!!

[Bert Kemp]

OK yes your right its a round then not a slab it was a $40 slab and I hate to toss it but I will if its the general consensus that I can't save it. I think its pretty well dry it very light in weight . I was thinking maybe take a piece of plywood and screw it to the underside, sand the top down and then fill it with the resin as mentioned. Thoughts?

Bert, if I'm seeing it right, it's a round, like you would cut off the top of a stump to get it down to ground level, not a slab, which would be ripped down the length of the trunk. If that is the case, the entire top and bottom are end grain, which is going to be difficult to sand and finish, unless you just want to leave the chain saw marks. It would have been extremely difficult to prevent the checking you're experiencing, especially in Arizona, but it would have required sealing the entire top and bottom and keeping it out of the sun for a long time. I wouldn't mess with butterflies in end grain, if that's what it is. Unless you want to make the checks a feature of your table, filled or unfilled, I'd toss it and chalk it up to experience.

[Bert Kemp]

Buying books and moisture meters is just not gonna happen. I just thought I could make a table top to sit on an existing base that my girlfriend has. Saw this round that was the right size (32x24 approx) figured I could sand it down stain it , put a finish on it and be good to go, 3 or 4 days work tops after drying time. Guess I got the wrong type of wood for the intended purpose

That's one big split! It appears there is fundamentally a problem with the way the slab was cut. I see a "bulls-eye" or the pith of the tree in the second photo. Either this is an end grain slab or it was a large branch that got sliced with the slab. To put it simply a round limb shrinks in all directions; a complete circular pattern. That grain pattern is doing the same thing; its trying to shrink all the way around and to get smaller so something has to give hence the crack. To understand wood's properties purchase the updated book Understanding Wood by Bruce Hoadly (you can find used ones). Its a dry read but full of great information. If its already dry and stable (you need to check the moisture content with a good moisture meter) I think large thick butterfly keys on both sides should hold it stable. End grain can do funny things so there isn't a guarantee that it will cooperate. End grain also behaves differently than flat grain so the combination of the two might be a disaster.
I would:

Check the moisture content now. If its fairly dry add butterfly keys (maybe rough flatten); if not wait until its drier.
Once the butterfly keys are in wait a year (full season change) and monitor the moisture content.
If it cooperates proceeded to finish smoothe it and add a base.
If it doesn't cooperate at least you aren't out the cost of a base and your time finishing it.

[Dan Hahr]

I hate to be sound pessimistic, but there is no fixing what you have. As that slice continues to dry, it will crack some more, or at least widen the existing one. Let it dry for a few months and then see what you have. If I were you I'd go back to the guy on the side of the road and try to get my money back. I've had luck with smaller softwood trees drying slowly enough to stay together, but nothing that big. Otherwise, let it dry and make the best of it.

Dan

[Bryan Cramer]

Buying books and moisture meters is just not gonna happen. I just thought I could make a table top to sit on an existing base that my girlfriend has. Saw this round that was the right size (32x24 approx) figured I could sand it down stain it , put a finish on it and be good to go, 3 or 4 days work tops after drying time. Guess I got the wrong type of wood for the intended purpose

Yes there is way more to it than you think. It might work for your purpose, but it takes time and effort. Also that piece would need to be flattened before finish sanding.

[Bert Kemp]

Your probably right but getting my money back would cost more then what I paid for the slab

I hate to be sound pessimistic, but there is no fixing what you have. As that slice continues to dry, it will crack some more, or at least widen the existing one. Let it dry for a few months and then see what you have. If I were you I'd go back to the guy on the side of the road and try to get my money back. I've had luck with smaller softwood trees drying slowly enough to stay together, but nothing that big. Otherwise, let it dry and make the best of it.

Dan

[ryan paulsen]

At this point, your best bet night be to let it finish shrinking/splitting, and then just gluing it back together. Rounds like this look neat, but there's a reason you don't see them made into stuff very often.

[Scott T Smith]

Bert, all is not lost; what is happening to your lumber is a normal part of the drying process. As others have mentioned, you do not have a "slab", you have a round (also known as a "cookie" in the industry). The good news is that your end check started from the outside and worked towards the center of the cookie. This "should" help prevent other end checks from developing that run the full distance from outside to center of the cookie.

I agree with Ryan; your best option is to simply let it finish drying, and then make some straight saw cuts (envision cutting the cookie into three pie wedge shaped pieces) and then glue them back together. Typically you can do this in a way to were the glue line is all but invisible.

[Kent A Bathurst]

This is what I'm dealing with and I notice now the split goes to the center then all the way to other side , I think I'm going to lose this piece its gonna split in half:
Attachment 311803Attachment 311804

Ken its a slab no end grain would doing the underside work? its pretty dried out all ready, doesn't take long here, days in 80's no humidity things dry very fast.

Could be the ~zero humidity caused to to dry faster than optimal, and the split is a result.

Like I said I'm not a wood worker. were do you get the butterflys and how do you put them in?

You make the butterflies. If you decide to go this way....
1. Get a small piece of wood that you like the looks of. Maybe 1/2" thick.
2. Cut the butterfly key[s] out of it. The long direction of he key must have the long grain of the wood.
3. Sand or chisel the deges to get them smooth. You want the edges to be square to the surface. Or perhaps, very slightly "toed in" from one face to the other.
4. Set the key on the slab - narrow face down, if you have a narrow face.
5. DON'T let it move as you trace around it - I use an exacto knife. Use very light strokes, make 3 or 4 passes - rather than pushing down - if you do that, the knife blade will tend to follow the grain, not the edge of the key. Mark your key so you will remember its exact orientation later on.
6. Use a chisel to carefully define the edges even further.
7. Remove the wood inside the lines, by any means you have available. Some guys go at it with their chisels only. I use a small router/laminate trimmer to get rid of most of it. Then use a chisel to smooth the bottom Keep in mind the depth - slightly less than the thickness of the key. Get the edges dead-on vertical, and cut right to the line.

Now it is just test fitting - carefully, because if it gets stuck, you can't get it back out. Dink around with sanding block and chisels as needed to tune up the fit. GLue in the bottom, insert key, whack it in place [use scrap wood between the key and the hammer. Chisel/sand fpat to surface.

Me? I would go at the entire thing this way:

I'm not buying the "its dry" thing. It might be, but it might not...sit on it for another month or more to see what happens. Without the investment in a moisture meter, you can't really know. It takes time for the moisture to get out of the center of a thick chunk of wood, even in AZ. If it splits all the way, that would be great in my book.

THen - get some bolts like those below. They are called countertop connectors, or countertop draw bolts. Different styles, but they all work basically the same. You have to clear out the recesses on the underside of your slab. Doesn't have to be pretty - as you can see in the photo. You can't pull it back together [unless it splits all the way, in which case you line the pieces up as best as you can.

Then - butterflies on the top. I'd be putting more than one across that canyon you are looking at.

[Bert Kemp]

OK I'm letting it sit for a while to see what happens Will return in a few weeks with an update on rounds condition. Thanks for all the help and suggestions so far. A few seem to think all is not lost here so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Time will tell. Back to the engraver woodworking on hold

Could be the ~zero humidity caused to to dry faster than optimal, and the split is a result.



You make the butterflies. If you decide to go this way....
1. Get a small piece of wood that you like the looks of. Maybe 1/2" thick.
2. Cut the butterfly key[s] out of it. The long direction of he key must have the long grain of the wood.
3. Sand or chisel the deges to get them smooth. You want the edges to be square to the surface. Or perhaps, very slightly "toed in" from one face to the other.
4. Set the key on the slab - narrow face down, if you have a narrow face.
5. DON'T let it move as you trace around it - I use an exacto knife. Use very light strokes, make 3 or 4 passes - rather than pushing down - if you do that, the knife blade will tend to follow the grain, not the edge of the key. Mark your key so you will remember its exact orientation later on.
6. Use a chisel to carefully define the edges even further.
7. Remove the wood inside the lines, by any means you have available. Some guys go at it with their chisels only. I use a small router/laminate trimmer to get rid of most of it. Then use a chisel to smooth the bottom Keep in mind the depth - slightly less than the thickness of the key. Get the edges dead-on vertical, and cut right to the line.

Now it is just test fitting - carefully, because if it gets stuck, you can't get it back out. Dink around with sanding block and chisels as needed to tune up the fit. GLue in the bottom, insert key, whack it in place [use scrap wood between the key and the hammer. Chisel/sand fpat to surface.

Me? I would go at the entire thing this way:

I'm not buying the "its dry" thing. It might be, but it might not...sit on it for another month or more to see what happens. Without the investment in a moisture meter, you can't really know. It takes time for the moisture to get out of the center of a thick chunk of wood, even in AZ. If it splits all the way, that would be great in my book.

THen - get some bolts like those below. They are called countertop connectors, or countertop draw bolts. Different styles, but they all work basically the same. You have to clear out the recesses on the underside of your slab. Doesn't have to be pretty - as you can see in the photo. You can't pull it back together [unless it splits all the way, in which case you line the pieces up as best as you can.

Then - butterflies on the top. I'd be putting more than one across that canyon you are looking at.

[Mort Stevens]

Like I said I'm not a wood worker. were do you get the butterflys and how do you put them in?

I don't think all is lost, just yet, but it won't be the pristine round with continuous growth rings you may have envision it to be.

Here's what i would tell a non-woodworker to do....

1) go to to you favorite hardware store and get a 1 lbs can of "Plastic Wood" it's in the aisle with the wood strains, also pick up a quart can of high-gloss polyurethane finish. Don't get anything water-based!
2) Do you have a belt sander? if so, get a couple of new 80-grit and 120-grit belts -- be sure to check size that fit your sander. If not get a couple of packs of 8x11 sandpaper for hand sanding, 60 & 100 grit will be all you need, get a sanding block to hold the sandpaper.
3) Fill the crack completely with the Plastic-Wood. Leave it sit overnight, it will shrink. You may need to repeat this 3 or 4 times to fill, leave the final fill a little proud of the surface.
4) Sand the top level, start with the coarse grit first then when you get it to where you want only then switch to the higher grit paper.
5) Shake up the can of finish (don't worry about bubbles at this point), pour out about 1/4 of the can and spread it around, I wouldn't bother with a brush, anything (even a piece of cardboard will work) can be used to even it out. The first coat will all soak in. Apply a second coat using the same pour method. Repeat until you get the results you want or the can is empty.

Then i would take the piece of wood to a glass shop and have them cut a piece of tempered glass the same shape, have them polish the edges, and use cork pads (the glass shop will have these) under the glass so the glass sets level on the wood top.

You mentioned in one post about staining it, personally I would not attempt to stain it, as end grain will soak up stain like a sponge it will look more like paint then stain.

Good luck with it. Like I said I think can still be used for what you want, but with a limited woodworking skills and presumably limited woodworking tools, I think what I outlined will give you the best results. As a woodworker with unlimited time and tools I might instead make a pie shape cut where the split is and putting in a contrasting piece of wood or maybe a clear piece of Lexan -- think of it as more a 'feature' than a mistake.

[Joe Jensen]

I hate to tell you this but there is no way to save this slice by closing they crack. Wood shrinks both radially and tangentially, meaning it shrinks between the growth rings and with the growth rings. But it shrinks at very different rates. It shrinks just a little between the rings and quite a bit with the growth rings. Because of this the diameter of the slice will not change much, but because the wood wants to shrink with the grain it will pull apart and crack. Turners soak pieces in a PEG solution to stabilize.

It's super hard to prevent this from happening on a large slice. If you want the look, I would fill it with epoxy once it's really dry. If you try to pull it together it will just crack somewhere else. No structural need for a butterfly but they look nice.

[Wes Ramsey]

I like Mort's advice. I'm primarily a wood turner that dabbles in flat wood work, and I tend to appreciate the wood for what it is and how it acts naturally, and I try to accent that and turn it into a feature instead of scrapping the piece as defective. Some of the prettiest pieces I've turned have had checks or even large-ish splits, and I've filled them with one media or another. I like coffee grounds - used, dried, then re-ground to something close to dust. I tamp them into the crack and fill with thin CA glue. I prefer this over mixing with epoxy as the grounds will actually soak up the CA glue and it helps to bond the media to the wood.

For a crack that big I would also suggest waiting to let the wood do its thing. Once it stabilizes I would fill in the bulk of it with sawdust, wood shavings or normal (not re-ground) coffee grounds and either epoxy or CA glue. Do it in stages to make sure you get plenty of adhesive and media in the crack. Top it off with the fine coffee grounds and soak it in CA glue. The coffee grounds will look like a large bark inclusion and will look more natural than some other fillers. Sawdust will just look muddy, but you can buy other types of media if you want a different look - crushed stone like turquoise (should be inexpensive in AZ), dyed corals in an number of colors, metal shavings/dust, crushed seashells and so on. Something that pops to mind that might look good would be to fill the crack with coffee grounds since it is cheap, and sprinkle in some turquoise and copper or bronze dust, then fill the other, smaller radial checks with the metal dust. Turquoise appears naturally with pyrite and copper so it would look similar to a vein of the raw metal when finished.

One consideration though - when filling cracks with either epoxy or CA glue, sand the top somewhat smooth first, then apply a light coat of your finish around the crack. I haven't used epoxy much, but I assume it acts like CA glue and will soak into the wood (especially end grain) and will leave a stain you can't sand out easily. The finish will seal the wood so the CA doesn't soak in where you don't want it. Otherwise it could come out blotchy around the crack.

Whatever you decide, best of luck to you on the project. If you see it through it will be something to be proud of, crack or not!

[Prashun Patel]

I'm usually an optimist about my wood, but if it were me, I'd throw in the towel. That crack is huge. That pith is bad, and there are other cracks starting to open up.

Standing the piece up to dry is a trick I've heard about only to get a lot of the unbound water out of freshly milled green wood.

[Tom Walz]

It's your project. Do whatever you want. You don't have to be good at woodworking to enjoy it.

[Bert Kemp]

Wes,
Thanks for the input and your idea's. Theres a lot of conflicting options here, some say toss it and other like yourself see hope. I like some of your ideas and its funny but I started saving coffee ground about 2 weeks ago and I didn't really have a use for them when I started but now maybe I can use them LOL you say ca glue what kind and were do you buy it.
I think before I make any decisions I'm gonna have to see what the wood does over the next few weeks.

I like Mort's advice. I'm primarily a wood turner that dabbles in flat wood work, and I tend to appreciate the wood for what it is and how it acts naturally, and I try to accent that and turn it into a feature instead of scrapping the piece as defective. Some of the prettiest pieces I've turned have had checks or even large-ish splits, and I've filled them with one media or another. I like coffee grounds - used, dried, then re-ground to something close to dust. I tamp them into the crack and fill with thin CA glue. I prefer this over mixing with epoxy as the grounds will actually soak up the CA glue and it helps to bond the media to the wood.

For a crack that big I would also suggest waiting to let the wood do its thing. Once it stabilizes I would fill in the bulk of it with sawdust, wood shavings or normal (not re-ground) coffee grounds and either epoxy or CA glue. Do it in stages to make sure you get plenty of adhesive and media in the crack. Top it off with the fine coffee grounds and soak it in CA glue. The coffee grounds will look like a large bark inclusion and will look more natural than some other fillers. Sawdust will just look muddy, but you can buy other types of media if you want a different look - crushed stone like turquoise (should be inexpensive in AZ), dyed corals in an number of colors, metal shavings/dust, crushed seashells and so on. Something that pops to mind that might look good would be to fill the crack with coffee grounds since it is cheap, and sprinkle in some turquoise and copper or bronze dust, then fill the other, smaller radial checks with the metal dust. Turquoise appears naturally with pyrite and copper so it would look similar to a vein of the raw metal when finished.

One consideration though - when filling cracks with either epoxy or CA glue, sand the top somewhat smooth first, then apply a light coat of your finish around the crack. I haven't used epoxy much, but I assume it acts like CA glue and will soak into the wood (especially end grain) and will leave a stain you can't sand out easily. The finish will seal the wood so the CA doesn't soak in where you don't want it. Otherwise it could come out blotchy around the crack.

Whatever you decide, best of luck to you on the project. If you see it through it will be something to be proud of, crack or not!