Sharpness Epiphanies

[Noah Wagener]

A hollow grind is a secondary bevel. Unless you work right off the wheel or have a round hone to match the wheel. Chisel life is the same for both methods even if you are raising the secondary bevel more with sucessive honings. Unless you keep honing after you have raised the wire edge. Than yes, 10 strokes at 35 degress will shorten the tool more than the same at 30 degrees.

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi Robert. How close to the cutting edge would you recommend Adam hollow grind too.

Stewie;

[Derek Cohen]

A hollow grind is a secondary bevel. Unless you work right off the wheel or have a round hone to match the wheel. Chisel life is the same for both methods even if you are raising the secondary bevel more with sucessive honings. Unless you keep honing after you have raised the wire edge. Than yes, 10 strokes at 35 degress will shorten the tool more than the same at 30 degrees.

Noah, I don't follow your reasoning here. You appear to contradict yourself.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Noah Wagener]

You would normally use less strokes at the higher angle and stop when it is sharp. You could raise your bevel to 50 degrees and still not get anymore wear on the back of the chisel than 20 degrees. You would just stop a lot sooner, when the wear has been removed as Mr. Haydon pointed out. If you kept on honing after the rounded edge has been removed,

Than yes, 10 strokes at 35 degress will shorten the tool more than the same at 30 degrees.

[Noah Wagener]

I suppose in the real world you can not stop honing at the exact optimum time and may shorten the life more if you use the secondary bevel method without being able to keep a consistent angle.

[Pat Barry]

It seems the real epiphany in this story is that there are many ways to get a sharp edge on a tool, nearly as many ways as there are folks doing the sharpening it seems, and no doubt everyone is getting a sharp edge and also that getting a sharp edge can be accomplished without a basic understanding of physics.

[John Schtrumpf]

I suppose in the real world you can not stop honing at the exact optimum time and may shorten the life more if you use the secondary bevel method without being able to keep a consistent angle.

Finally, some common sense. Along with, the method that sharpens the quickest, has the most potential to shorten the length the quickest.

[Graham Haydon]

It's always scrumpy time Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

But.....Sometimes it's whisky time.

[Warren Mickley]

It seems the real epiphany in this story is that there are many ways to get a sharp edge on a tool, nearly as many ways as there are folks doing the sharpening it seems, and no doubt everyone is getting a sharp edge and also that getting a sharp edge can be accomplished without a basic understanding of physics.

I am baffled by this remark. Are you claiming that workers with real depth of experience, real discernment, and real understanding should not bother speaking up? Let the blind lead the blind?

[Pat Barry]

I am baffled by this remark. Are you claiming that workers with real depth of experience, real discernment, and real understanding should not bother speaking up? Let the blind lead the blind?

Talk about baffled, how would you get what you said from what I said? What I said was about as simple as you can get. By the way, by all means, speak up if you have something to offer.
So far you have said:

A friend is a high end furniture maker, known as a specialist in handtools? And he hardly ever sharpens his chisels? You are straining credulity.
I have never seen a Tormek or a sharpening jig in a professional shop. I am sure there are some, but the idea that they are necessary is far fetched. The "workmen of Yesteryear" tended to use grindstones that were in the 20 inch diameter range, not much of a hollow grind. Try it sometime.

Are we all supposed to go get 20 inch grindstones?

[Warren Mickley]

Yes, you should certainly get a 20 inch grindstone and try it if you want to feign expertise on the "workmen of Yesteryear".

I am sorry you did not understand my remarks.

[Jim Koepke]

no doubt everyone is getting a sharp edge and also that getting a sharp edge can be accomplished without a basic understanding of physics.

If everyone was getting a sharp edge we wouldn't have a thread about someone all of a sudden discovering a new level of sharpness.

Yes, people can accomplish sharpness without a basic understanding of physics.

Just like people without any knowledge of electricity can turn on their TV. People drive cars all the time without knowing anything about the basics of mechanics. People walk to the sink and get a drink of water without any understanding of plumbing.

When the day comes that the blade isn't getting sharp, the TV isn't working, the car is stopped by the side of the road or the water doesn't run, it is beneficial to have some knowledge so one's wallet doesn't get drained by those who took the time to understand some of the basics of various things around us.

jtk

[Pat Barry]

My point was there are a LOT of ways to get a sharp edge. Think about it: Waterstones, oilstones, diamond paste, granite surface plates, glass, sandpaper, scary sharp, honing guides, grinding wheels, high speed grinders, belt sanders, CBN wheels, white wheels, Tormeks, ceramic plates, even 20 inch grinding wheels for some of the old timers. Everyone has their own method and sequence of work and its really just whatever works for each guy out there. I am sure you have your way Jim and it works fine for you. It probably isn't the same as what Warren does and for the most part it doesn't matter.

[Robert Engel]

Hi Robert. How close to the cutting edge would you recommend Adam hollow grind too.

Stewie;

It really depends on your grinding wheel.

I use a pretty fine wheel I think its 150 grit.
If I'm careful I can go right to the edge, but I mean you have to be careful.
You have to be patient and not pass the blade to slowly and keep the water close.
I feel the blade after every couple passes for heat the finer the wheel the more heat you get.

You don't have to go right to the edge I think if you can get at least within 1/16 the problem is you will have more honing because you're secondary bevel will be longer.