Sharpness Epiphanies

[Adam Stevens2]

Was wondering whether others in this group had the same or similar epiphany I had today regarding sharpness in their tools? I've probably been bumbling along for a year or so thinking my blades were pretty sharp, but after today I've seen the error in my thinking. I got myself a set of new Narex chisels from LV and have been working on sharpening up the 3/4" chisel. I probably put a good two hours into it, including flattening the back. Probably could have done it much quicker with a grinder (which I don't have...) but I figure the practice was worthwhile as much as anything. I've never had the same kind of mirror finish with previous attempts.

It's interesting to see what a difference a truly sharp blade makes. I tested it on some scrap red oak and it just sliced slivers away with ease. I guess it serves as a lesson in patience as well, previously I've probably been in too much of a hurry or get tired of it and the results showed.

[Phil Stone]

I had a small epiphany yesterday, when I realized that I should probably get a belt grinder. Flattening the back of a chisel or plane iron with sandpaper on glass takes FOREVER if the previous owner rounded it significantly. Ditto for changing a primary bevel.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Adam - sharpening is one of the few essential "gateway" skills in the rabbit hole into which you have fallen.

Well done. Keep up the good work.

But - 2 hours is pretty long time on NIB chisels......... The first, coarsest, cut might take a while on the back and the bevel, but after that, you only need to remove the "bigger" scratches and replace the with "finer" scratches as you move through the grits. That should move pretty quickly...........You should be more in the 20-minute range, tops......easy to over-do it [says one who knows].

[Jim Koepke]

Was wondering whether others in this group had the same or similar epiphany I had today regarding sharpness in their tools?

It is a common occurrence for one's sharpening to improve over time. Often it is discovered when a new technique or stone is tried. Other times when just a bit more effort is expended in the pursuit of sharpness one discovers a new level of sharpness.

jtk

[george wilson]

Be careful: a belt grinder can quickly ruin a chisel if you are not experienced.

[Adam Stevens2]

Adam - sharpening is one of the few essential "gateway" skills in the rabbit hole into which you have fallen.

Well done. Keep up the good work.

But - 2 hours is pretty long time on NIB chisels......... The first, coarsest, cut might take a while on the back and the bevel, but after that, you only need to remove the "bigger" scratches and replace the with "finer" scratches as you move through the grits. That should move pretty quickly...........You should be more in the 20-minute range, tops......easy to over-do it [says one who knows].

Kent - I would say 75% of the time was spent on the front getting rid of the factory marks on the primary bevel. I did this on a 1000 grit stone and I am wondering if that was the issue. Factor in a bunch of elbow-grease-relieving breaks as well. I do have a 'green' 220 grit stone - would that be too coarse? I also did the entire face of the primary bevel. I'm not sure if that's overkill or not. At least I ended up with a nice mirror polish the whole way up the bevel. I probably spent five-ten minutes on the finer stones and that includes creating a microbevel, which probably took all of a minute.

[Phil Stone]

Be careful: a belt grinder can quickly ruin a chisel if you are not experienced.

I've avoided getting one up to this point, but don't think I can stand removing significant metal with sandpaper-on-glass anymore. Are you referring mostly to the danger of drawing the temper from the blade? If you don't mind me asking, what is your preferred method of repairing and/or changing the bevel angle of blades?

[Adam Stevens2]

Of course my bench is such a mess that I just went to have another play and took a tiny little chip out of the edge banging it on the side of my plane that's sitting in the way of everything. So now there's that.

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi Adam. You should have started off with your 220 stone to complete 90* of the work. Then swapped over to your 1000 stone and repeated the same process. To further increase the sharpness of the cutting edge, rub some green honing compound onto a piece of mdf, and again repeat the same process.

[Adam Stevens2]

Thanks mate, I'll start with the 220 stone for the next batch. Might be able to use it to get rid of that bloody chip too? Tad annoyed I did that.

I've been trying to figure out if that's David Gulpilil as your avatar.

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi Adam. Your probably already know, but when you work the back of the chisel, there is no need to go any higher than 1 1/2 inches above the cutting edge. Same rule applies for most plane irons.

[Gene Davis]

YouTube is great for getting advice on sharpening.

There is a vid with Paul Sellars reviving a wooden jointer plane, one straight from an estate sale somewhere, with I. Sorby iron. He does the back, then the bevel, the "wings," which is what he calls the fadeaway round at the corners, then the secondary, then strops all. No jigs, just diamond stones.

And the signmaker from California, Billy Schenher, shows you how he flattens backs of chisels with diamond first, then waterstones at 8000 and 15000 grit.

But I like the approach taken by Rob Cosner, who raises the backs of chisels and plane irons to maybe a half a degree or so, to just "flatten" the 1/4" or so near the cutting edge.

Before everyone started using the diamond stones, I went and bought the Lee Valley stone pond, and a set of waterstones from coarse up to 8000.

So now I will get into stropping. Ordered just today, Lee Valley, free shipping, a 6" hard felt wheel for the old Baldor bench grinder, and a stick of green compound. Now I'll shop for a wide leather belt in a thrift store, or go see a shoe repair guy to see what I can get, for a piece I can glue to a board, to have a flat strop.

[John Crawford]

I would say 75% of the time was spent on the front getting rid of the factory marks on the primary bevel... I probably spent five-ten minutes on the finer stones and that includes creating a microbevel, which probably took all of a minute.

This will be a big time saver for you: if you are using a secondary micro-bevel, you won't need to spend time polishing your primary bevel. Of course now you are done with it! But next time, you can just work on the back and the micro bevel.

[Chuck Hart]

Gene, just use a piece of MDF for the strop. Load it up with the "green stuff" and have at it. The MDF works well and a lot of people use it.

[Robert Engel]

After reading all the posts, I offer these comments:

1. The only reason for ever putting a chisel or plane iron on a grinder is to hollow bevel. I think you wasted your time getting rid of the machine marks on the bevel. The best way to treat a new chisel is to hollow grind the bevel prior to sharpening. This will cut your honing time considerable because you are just working a secondary bevel, which means taking off less material.

I, too purchased a set of Narex chisels and actually timed myself from start to finish and I had most chisels ready to use in 30-35 minutes.

2. Polish has little to do with sharpness. In fact, I recently read an article that basically proved polishing actually dulls the edge.

3. I disagree about going 1 1/2" in flattening. If you're ever paring out a through mortise more than 2" deep, you will regret this. I generally flatten my chisel backs at least 1/2 way up the blade, or 2-3". Actually, if you think about it, the more purchase you have, the less error you will have when flattening. 1 1/2" is not enough IMO.

4. I generally do not use a honing guide when touching up. Free hand sharpening is a great skill to learn and saves alot of time when you're making a pitstop in a project to resharpen. Every once in a while I have a sharpening session with all my most used tools in which I do use a honing guide just to make sure I clear any errors from my hand sharpening.

I also recommend videos. Lie Nielsen has a good one on sharpening.
I will give you my technique for comparison:

A. Out of the box:
1. Flatten back: I start with 250 grit water stone. Establish scratch pattern examine under light see what I've got to do. If fairly even go to 320 grit diamond stone. Work it until scratch pattern extends across cutting edge and up the back at least 2 1/2" minimal to edges and large area of back (doesn't need to be perfect). Jump to 600, then 1250 grit. I could stop there, but I go to 4000 then 8000 on the back just on personal choice.

2. Hollow grind bevel: I use the LV grinding wheel jig, carefully set to grind just center of bevel, taking care not to overheat steel. The hollow grinding greatly reduces the honing time as you're only honing 2-3mm instead of the whole bevel. Only the edge cuts! A hollow bevel also gives you a reference point for hand sharpening. You can rock the blade to find the angle, slightly raise, and hone the microbevel.

3. Hone: After hollow grinding I use a honing guide and start with 600 grit, then 1250 (these are diamond stones). Then to the 4000 and 8000 water stone. That's as far as I go. Personally, I don't believe going over 8000 is going to make a real world difference in your blade but some people go to 16k and even 32k.

Good luck. You're a beginner and you are wise to "hone" your sharpening skills right from the beginning. But, it is one of those skills that takes some practice. Find what works for you and stick with one method. I have the granite and sandpaper but I never use anymore.

If it helps, these are my stones: DMT extra coarse/coarse & fine/extra fine. Norton 4000/8000 water stone. The 250 is a water stone. I use the 320 coarse diamond stone to flatten my water stones. Flatten water stones before and between each use (very important!). I seldom use a leather strop with polishing paste.

I respect Paul Sellers, but disagree a little with his sharpening in that he doesn't take the edge to a high enough grit, IMO.