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Thread: pattern cutter for shaper

  1. #1
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    pattern cutter for shaper

    Looking to invest in a "shelix" type cutter for pattern cutting on my shaper and need suggestions. Spindle is 1 1/4". I would like to be able to flip the head and feed from both directions. If I buy a Byrd head it will be down cutting spinning one way, and when fliped, it will be up cutting. Not good.. Do they make a left & right spiral head? Should I consider a different head, that has staggered teeth, but not a shearing cutting edge?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim mills View Post
    Looking to invest in a "shelix" type cutter for pattern cutting on my shaper and need suggestions. Spindle is 1 1/4". I would like to be able to flip the head and feed from both directions. If I buy a Byrd head it will be down cutting spinning one way, and when fliped, it will be up cutting. Not good.. Do they make a left & right spiral head? Should I consider a different head, that has staggered teeth, but not a shearing cutting edge?
    Look into cutterheads with carbide insert knives like a Leitz or Leuco, Amana has them also. If you don't need more than 2" heigt, you can get a rabbetting head with spurs, they're also stackable.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim mills View Post
    Looking to invest in a "shelix" type cutter for pattern cutting on my shaper and need suggestions. Spindle is 1 1/4". I would like to be able to flip the head and feed from both directions. If I buy a Byrd head it will be down cutting spinning one way, and when fliped, it will be up cutting. Not good..
    Uh...why is this not good? Are you worried about uplift on pattern work? Its not really a concern, its not going to pull the work off the table. I do as much curved work as possible these days with the feeder anyway, take two wheels off, aim it across the butterhead toward the back of the table, works well on things were I don't have to stop half way, even then I can direct it back out of the cut if necessary. I think there are lots of good choices out there for segmented insert pattern heads. Byrd, amana, garniga, Leitz, those that Mark mentioned. I second the use a rabbit head for pattern cutting, Ive had great luck with a 4Z carbide insert head with straight inserts for more subtle curves in all but the most narly wood. Leaves a glass like surface when the knives are sharp, they stay sharp a long time and are very easy to flip or change as necessary. Mine is garniga, lots of choices there too.

    Ive used a byrd head at a previous job, don't recall any issues feeding by hand from either direction, not sure what the nature of your reservation is? Many of the different makers have some type of helix involved.
    "A good miter set up is like yoga pants: it makes everyone's butts look good." Prashun Patel

  4. #4
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    well i was told by someone that it is unsafe and not recomended to run the cutter in an upshear direction. If is not an issue, then that makes selection alot easier. I do have some taller stoc. Say 3.5" i want to cut. Are you sure the upcut orientation would not be an issue? I dont quite follow the concept of pattern cutting using a power feeder

  5. #5
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    Peter is right, no issues flipping these Castor heads. We have a 100mm tall X 80 diameter. It is useful for tight radius work but find our 4 knife 5" tall Tersa head and Z4 rebate head leave a better finish and require less oomph to push. The Castor finish is very acceptable though and find it cuts against the grain with no issues.
    Power feeders work great for curve work.
    Orteli.jpg
    curve moulding.jpg
    Shaping large arch T26.jpgTersa head.jpg

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim mills View Post
    well i was told by someone that it is unsafe and not recomended to run the cutter in an upshear direction. If is not an issue, then that makes selection alot easier. I do have some taller stoc. Say 3.5" i want to cut. Are you sure the upcut orientation would not be an issue? I dont quite follow the concept of pattern cutting using a power feeder
    Joe's picture shows a pretty good example of power feed pattern cutting, I often just take off two wheels and run a single wheel in front of the cutter head so it's easier to direct the cut. It helps to have a starting point in the form of a pin, or curved block clamped to,the table, for outside curves just pulling the hood back can work well. The template is long and always engages the work first and last so you never risk a climb cut. It's a lot like pattern cutting freehand, you still guide the work around the curve, but the feeder provides the down and forward pressure. It makes for some pretty smooth cuts.
    "A good miter set up is like yoga pants: it makes everyone's butts look good." Prashun Patel

  7. #7
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    I have the 3" Byrd. Non issue of reverse cutting with the inserts angled up.

    IMG_3443.jpg

    I made these half posts using the 3" Byrd. The posts are 5x5. I had to make two passes per side. One side was CW, the other was CCW rotation. Otherwise I would get tear out at the top of the post where the arc ends.
    -Lud

  8. #8
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    thanks Justin, that's exactly what I had in mind.can somebody give me a source for the teresa head? Thanks for all the replies

  9. #9
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    If you do go straight knife head, Terminus is another option. terminus-stl.com
    My pattern shaping is almost always done with a 160 mm diameter x 4" tall chicklet style head by Weinig that I got for my molder, but has only been used in it once. It practically lives on my shaper since I got the 1 1/2" spindle for ease of swapping an already set up molder head for straight runs into the shaper for the curved portion of jobs.
    I have tried the feeder on curved work. It did work ok, but felt awkward to me, so I feed most curved by hand. I must need to refine my set up or technique.
    Hand fed is not as safe, but if you have any grain change/tear out worries, it is more controllable in my opinion

  10. #10
    That's the good thing about the old style pressure bars ,you can control speed,and change pressure pads to fit current
    project.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter gagliardi View Post
    If you do go straight knife head, Terminus is another option. terminus-stl.com
    My pattern shaping is almost always done with a 160 mm diameter x 4" tall chicklet style head by Weinig that I got for my molder, but has only been used in it once. It practically lives on my shaper since I got the 1 1/2" spindle for ease of swapping an already set up molder head for straight runs into the shaper for the curved portion of jobs.
    I have tried the feeder on curved work. It did work ok, but felt awkward to me, so I feed most curved by hand. I must need to refine my set up or technique.
    Hand fed is not as safe, but if you have any grain change/tear out worries, it is more controllable in my opinion
    I think any insert type 4z head would work nice. The big Tersa head came with a used profiler bought used. I did not think about using it for curves until one time we were shaping some 5" thick knee braces for a timber framer. One thing, these larger diameter heads are nice but I have run into a lot of details where they are too big to follow the pattern. We had a Green & Green style job with cloud lift details and that is what prompted the small diameter spiral purchase. It could have been done with a router bit but I will walk a mile to avoid using routers when a shaper will work.

    I find we use the feeder mostly for large work. We build some large windows and doors, usually 3" or so thick. Small one off work is usually by hand feed. I used to spend a lot of time making nice jigs with handles. Back in the 80s we had a line of Victorian doors with curve parts and made good jigs. We had a lot of repeats on those but anymore everything is one off and I make the jigs as simple as possible. So the feeder adds a margin of safety to my quick jigs.

    Tersa & Castor1.jpgT90 with frame.jpg
    Last edited by Joe Calhoon; 04-23-2015 at 3:52 PM.

  12. #12
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    Joe, I wish I lived close to you. I'd come work for months at a time for free just to learn.
    -Lud

  13. #13
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    Ok, so I ended up getting a 3"w x 4" t byrd head. Not sure what speed to run this head at. It's only 3" dia, so at 10k, I'm only getting a rim speed of 7800fpm, but it has 5 rows of cutters, so I'm getting a lot of CPI.

  14. #14
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    Run it as slow as you can to get an acceptable finish. It should state what max rpms are on it. I run my head at 6000.
    You will know if you run too slow by feel and sound pretty quickly.

  15. #15
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    Peter, i ran it at 6k but to me it feels a bit slow. Im handfeeding some irregular shapes, an i got scared when i got into some tight inside radiuses.

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