Preparing stock w/ planer, no sled

[Phil Thien]

The topic of using a planer as a substitute for a jointer comes up from time to time.

God this is going to be long, sorry.

So from time to time I visit a hardwoods supplier named Kettle Moraine Hardwoods. They have a bunch of rough-sawn lumber and offer, as a service, planing of said lumber for a few cents per board foot. Now, I see professionals at Kettle Moraine from time to time, and they always take the planing service.

I E-Mailed the owner of KM Hardwoods once, and asked if they face joint the stock first, to get one side flat. His answer was "no." He said if the board wasn't flat to start with, the planed boards also wouldn't be flat. Which didn't make sense, why would the "pros" be asking for a service that would deliver wavy wood? It isn't as if the boards (in the rough) are perfectly flat.

Now, I have a planer (Dewalt DW734) and a planer sled and I've had good luck getting flat stock using the sled. I have a small jointer but for anything over 6" wide, or anything sorta spendy, I tend to use the planer sled because the results are very consistently good. Technique doesn't enter into it.

But I've always wondered about the process of planing a board w/o face jointing it. The conventional wisdom is that the planer simply makes the two surfaces parallel. And thinking about how a planer works, that makes perfect sense. The idea is that pressure/feed rollers flatten a board on the way through, but that it "springs" back to its cup/warp/twist after being planed.

But thinking about it more, you realize that the pressure/feed rollers can't apply unlimited pressure. They can't push so hard that the boards won't move through the planer. So it would seem that for each pass through a planer, the board may actually become more flat.

So with my most recent acquisition of wood (the bug-holed red oak), I thought I'd try planing in the rough, both sides. Cup and all. The boards are a strong 4/4 in the rough, with maybe 1/16" cup across the width, and maybe 3/16" to 1/4" bow along about six feet (the length of a couple I tried).

One of them had some twist, too.

And after planing them down to 3/4" I can honestly say they're very usable. About what I'd expect if I ordered S4S from a yard. I've ordered S4S stock and it has rarely been perfectly straight, there is always some bow to it. Maybe a little better than what I'm seeing but maybe not, either. I'm not going to tell you they are straight-edge flat, but that 3/16" to 1/4" cup may be only 1/32" or 1/16" (and 1/16" is a stretch) now. If cut into shorter pieces, deviation from flat becomes pretty insignificant.

I imagine the larger industrial planers are better at this because I don't think they apply as much downward force when they plane, I think the serrated rollers are able to push a board forward with less downward force, compared to my little lunchbox planer. (Maybe not, Robert says no below).

This morning I took one of these boards from 3/4" down to 1/2" and when I was done I felt the stock was about what I'd expect had I jointed and then planed it.

So I'm going to experiment with this more but I just think it is sort of interesting, and thought I'd share my observations.

[Matt Day]

How long were the boards in your experiment?

[Michael Weber]

I have done the same for cupped wood. The small width prevents the roller pressure from flatting it. Never had such luck with bowed or twisted.

[Phil Thien]

How long were the boards in your experiment?

About six feet long. They were originally about eight but I knocked about a foot off each end to make the board more manageable, and because the ends were split.

The stock in my "Krenov will roll in his grave" cabinet was all rough-sawn and run through my planer w/o sled. No jointing-type of operation was employed: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...o-James-Krenov

[Andrew Hughes]

The lumber yard I buy from also does not face joint before the run the wood thru the planer,they are just trying to sell wood.Some of the stuff like cherry is blanked they also call it hit and miss and then some #.Its a good way to revile the color and grain with taking too much away.
For guys like me it's good to start with over sized lumber before I offer it up to sweet oliver. Aj

[Robert Engel]

First off, we need to get the terminology right.
Cupping is across the width of a board.
Warping and twisting are along the length.

As far as running cupped stock, yeah you can to it but it depends on the thickness.
You can run a 16/4 slab with a cup and it will plane flat on the top, flip it over and end up with flat faces.
But it won't do a thing about warp or twist no matter how thick it is without face jointing or using a sled.
You might make it better, but you'll never get the warp or twist out of a 6' board with nothing but a planer.

Actually, you can't get away with as much with big planers they exert alot more pressure.

As far as the lumberyard, they are most likely doing is what's called "skip planing" or "hit or miss" planing.
You can get a look at the grain of the wood for project planning and it avoids the wear and tear on your knives.

[mreza Salav]

Robert is correct. Yes, you might reduce the warping a bit but you don't eliminate it with just a planer, even if it is a long bed planer, especialy with 4/4 material.

[Phil Thien]

First off, we need to get the terminology right.
Cupping is across the width of a board.
Warping and twisting are along the length.

Thanks, yes I was confusing that. The boards in question were cupped and bowed. I don't think warp is typically used for describing lumber but it would be the same as bowed I guess. But in my case, the cup and bow were substantially reduced. The cup was eliminated, the bow reduced to what we'd get if I purchased S4S lumber.

As far as running cupped stock, yeah you can to it but it depends on the thickness.
You can run a 16/4 slab with a cup and it will plane flat on the top, flip it over and end up with flat faces.
But it won't do a thing about warp or twist no matter how thick it is without face jointing or using a sled.

I've only got a couple of boards done but I have to disagree, the bow was reduced to what I'd expect buying prepared stock.

You might make it better, but you'll never get the warp or twist out of a 6' board with nothing but a planer.

I agree it isn't perfectly straight. I can make perfectly straight boards with my jointer, or my planer sled. But if I go to a yard and order S4S, it isn't going to be any straighter than what I got with my experiment. Maybe fractionally better, but I've purchased S4S stock and never found any straight arrows, that is for sure.

Actually, you can't get away with as much with big planers they exert alot more pressure.

I thought they'd apply less downward but more forward pressure. Live and learn.

As far as the lumberyard, they are most likely doing is what's called "skip planing" or "hit or miss" planing.
You can get a look at the grain of the wood for project planning and it avoids the wear and tear on your knives.

Nope, they offer the service for a fee AFTER the purchase, and they are taking it to 13/16 or 3/4, typically.

[Phil Thien]

Robert is correct. Yes, you might reduce the warping a bit but you don't eliminate it with just a planer, even if it is a long bed planer, especialy with 4/4 material.

Again, not saying it is perfectly straight. Just pretty darn good, good enough that for many uses, it doesn't need to be any straighter. It compares very favorably to what I get when purchasing S4S stock.

[Ethan Melad]

I would guess that the yard has a double (or 4-) sided planer. If they also offer millwork, they might use a molder. If you can get your lumber S2S, S3S, or S4S, then they probably have the capability to mill all sides at once. They're not going to take the time/effort for the typical shop process of jointing, planing, and ripping, as that would not be at all cost effective.

[Phil Thien]

I would guess that the yard has a double (or 4-) sided planer. If they also offer millwork, they might use a molder. If you can get your lumber S2S, S3S, or S4S, then they probably have the capability to mill all sides at once. They're not going to take the time/effort for the typical shop process of jointing, planing, and ripping, as that would not be at all cost effective.

At that time they didn't have a multisided planer. I had asked if that was the way they were skipping the jointing step. It has been a while since I've been there so they could have added a multisided jointer but I sorta doubt it.

[Danny Hamsley]

I plane a lot of wood. I rough saw hardwood, kiln dry it, skip plane it, and sell it. About 80% of my wood from the process is very straight and flat because I take great care in handling the green lumber, sticker stacking it on 16" centers, and drying it properly. Then I store the lumber in racks that have cross supports every 24". This keeps the planed boards nice and flat. The rough stock is sawn 1 1/8" thick. 90% of it will plane out to a full 1" with both surfaces cleaned up. I also skip plane some boards to 15/16". Usually there is at least one face that cleans up completely, and the customer still has 3/16" to face joint on the jointer then plane to 3/4 if they so desire.

Unfortunately, many lumber suppliers do not handle their wood very well, and that is why much of pre-planed S4S lumber is not of such good quality.

I believe the key to flat lumber is 80% handling and preparation and 20% drying and storing. However, twisted boards have to be run over a jointer or planed with a planed sled with shims. Always.

[Jerry Miner]

First off, we need to get the terminology right.
Cupping is across the width of a board.
Warping and twisting are along the length.

Yes, let's get it straight. "Warp" is a general term that refers to any of the following defects: bow, crook, cup, twist, and kink:

300px-Wood_warping.png

[Wade Lippman]

A planer does little to reduce warping, but you can usually force wood straight during assembly. It is a question of whether you want to do quality work.

[Danny Hamsley]

For the best practice, if you want flat straight boards after planing, use boards that start off pretty much flat and straight. I have had poor luck flattening twisted boards and keeping them straight and flat after planing, especially the spiral grain woods like sycamore, sweetgum, and hackberry.