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Thread: Table design questions...

  1. #1
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    Table design questions...

    I'm going to be building a table for our kitchen, and my wife and I both like the design shown in the pictures below. It's a trestle style, but a little more rustic than your typical trestle. Our will almost certainly be made out of walnut, and we'll be going for a live-edge style on the top. A local sawmill has a nice log they cut into 10/4-12/4 thick pieces, and I'm seriously thinking about taking that off their hands.

    I haven't built a table like this before; I've built a few side tables, but nothing of this scope. So I've got some concerns (obviously), but mainly some questions.

    Does anyone have a guess as to how far out those feet go? I doubt they stretch out as far as the top, but it's really hard to tell in the picture. What's a good rule of thumb for the length of those feet relative to the top?

    I can easily see the one small stretcher between each leg piece; the main stretcher obviously connects into those. But I can't tell if there's a second small stretcher closer to the feet. It looks like something is there in the picture, but I can't tell if something is there or if that's part of the chair confusing me. Why might there need to be a second stretcher between those pieces?

    I'm guessing the top of the legs has a standard trestle-style cross brace that connects to the top. Does anyone think there might be another long stretcher that runs between each set of legs, right below the top? I was wondering if another long stretcher might be needed for stability / to prevent racking. Plus does anyone think there might be another cross brace in the middle that's simply there to help keep the top flat? I realize this top has breadboard ends, so the presence of those might remove any need for a middle cross brace. With a slab-style top I don't expect to be doing a breadboard end on mine.

    Finally, any guesses on the thickness of those leg, feet, and stretcher pieces? If that top is 6/4 then the long stretcher might be 8/4, but do you think those leg and feet pieces might be 10/4 square? That seems awfully thick, but then again they do have to hold up the table.

    Thanks,
    Steve


    table1.jpgtable2.jpg
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Wurster View Post
    Does anyone think there might be another long stretcher that runs between each set of legs, right below the top? I was wondering if another long stretcher might be needed for stability / to prevent racking.
    The pragmatic question: What would you feel most comfortable with? Do that. Me? I would have stretchers along the short dimension between the legs at the top, and one long stretcher connecting the middle of those two. To give me a anchoring points for the top to the base, if nothing else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Wurster View Post
    Finally, any guesses on the thickness of those leg, feet, and stretcher pieces? If that top is 6/4 then the long stretcher might be 8/4, but do you think those leg and feet pieces might be 10/4 square? That seems awfully thick, but then again they do have to hold up the table.
    You get to 8/4, and your structural concerns are waaaay back in the rearview. No structural concerns to be resolved by going to bigger lumber. 8/4 will hold up the table - even if your entire family gets on top to dance when you celebrate the spring equinox. This is all aesthetics - what proportions do you think look best?

    That's the cool thing about making your own stuff - YOU get to choose how it looks. The people that made those tables in the photos made their choice based on what they think looks right. You get to do the same.........Trestle tables are "beefy" by definition, so go as big as you think looks right.
    When I started woodworking, I didn't know squat. I have progressed in 30 years - now I do know squat.

  3. #3
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    I did a quick model in Sketchup to block out for sizing. See attached.

    Table is L x W as shown, top is 1.75" thick, surface up off floor 29 inches. Feet are 2x3, legs 2x2-1/2, and the stretcher and small spreaders are 2x2.

    BTW, the spread between leg assemblies of 48" is right for the size. I just built a copy of the trestle table by Stickley, the Macintosh, and while wider at 44 inches, the size and position of the trestle leg assemblies, and that 48 inch spread, is identical. Seats six perfectly.
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    Last edited by Gene Davis; 04-26-2015 at 8:54 AM.

  4. #4
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    Gene, you are awesome! Thanks. Quick question: What angle did you use for those legs? And did you include a second stretcher just under the top?
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  5. #5
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    The lean is about 5.7 degrees. I doodled some more. Here you go.

    Do you use Sketchup or do you have a friend that does? Greatest resource ever for woodworking. I can put the model up on the 3D Warehouse for you.
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  6. #6
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    And now, with the "This Week with George Stephanopolus" interview just ended, here are the joints. To do it with draw-bore pegs, you'll want to study the arrangement a little. The tenons are drawn at 1" thickness and may be better just a tiny bit thinner. For drawbore, you may want 1/3 - 1/3 - 1/3.

    Go on YouTube and watch Bill Schenher do his saw table build, and listen to what he says about drawbore work. Make your own dowels, etc.
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  7. #7
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    Like I said, awesome. Yes, I use and love Sketchup. I was going to use it to help me design this build. Let me know if you put the model up. Thanks a ton.

    I've never done drawbore, so I don't know what you mean by 1/3 - 1/3 - 1/3, unless you're talking about the tenon sizing. I'll take a look at those videos when I get a chance.
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  8. #8
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    OK, good. I cleaned it up a little, doodled all the tenons to be 3/4 thick so the drawbore tenon goes through at about 1/3 thickness of receiving (mortise) member thickness before entering tenon. Thus 5/8 - 3/4 - 5/8.

    All the mortises are cut normal to their surfaces. Easier to do this when you can saw the tenon cheeks to the required angles, than to chop slant sides into mortises.

    Post pictures of your project when cutting and fitting, and when done.

    My local place for slabs has a monstrous selection of flitches, but being here in the intermountain west, all the walnut is claro. They've highly figured tropical stuff, some slabs going for nearly $14,000.

    Doing the live edges right requires some good sanding techniques. Be sure to use a contrasting wood such as hard maple when doing the bowties down the center, and vary the size and spacing a little to give it all a Nakashima look. And a little drawknife chamfering on all the arrises (sp?) of the trestle parts would be nice.

    The image here of the 3D Whse confirmation should make it easy to find the model.
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  9. #9
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    And some beveling, to authenticate the timbered look of the base. I need to work on the feet.
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  10. #10
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    Damn, Gene, that's awesome. Are you bored today, or do you just really like making Sketchup drawings for other people. I downloaded the drawing from the 3D warehouse. Thanks.

    I don't know if I'll go with the chamfer on the base pieces. My wife might not like that.

    I also don't know if I'll be doing any bowties. The log I was looking at was already split a good bit down the pith, primarily because they hit a nail when slicing it. They left one piece in tact with the split, but the one below it in the stack they simply cut further so it's now two narrower pieces. I was thinking of fully splitting the partially split piece, gluing that back together without any pith, and then making those already split pieces the outside edges. I emailed the mill and asked them to send me the pictures of the grain, and I'm going to stop by again later this week to take another look and work on purchasing the pieces.
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  11. #11
    While I'm not generally a fan of rustic trestle tables, the design you have pictures of is pretty nice. I think it is actually a little more modern than rustic, as there are no through tenons, no beveling or arching of the feet.

    With all due respect to Gene and his very nice sketchup work, I think the table is much more fresh and interesting in the original pictures than the sketchup design. The design is cleaner and more refined, and joints are simplified - for example the feet could use bridle and/or half lap joints rather than mortise and tenon.

    But obviously, its your personal and aesthetic preferences that matter.
    Melad StudioWorks
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  12. #12
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    I don't think I'll be going with through tenons. I'm not a big fan of them myself, and I don't think my wife likes them that much either. The jury is still out on whether she'll want beveled or arched feet. I'll have to show her different designs and go with whatever she likes the most.

    I was leaning toward mortise and tenon for attaching the legs to the feet. Depending on the pieces and their grain, I was thinking I might be able to do a split foot where you can make the mortises by using a dado stack on each half of the foot and then just glue them together. But we'll see what the pieces look like and what I really feel like doing.

    Thanks.
    And there was trouble, taking place...

  13. #13
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    I agree with those that disliked my too-Tudor base. I got carried away with the timber details, which while appropriate for a hayrake table, are not right for the OP.

    So I went and looked at Nakashima, and settled on his Conoid table, circa 1960, as one appropriate for the slab top.

    It's up on the warehouse.

    It is cold and rainy today here on the high plains adjacent Colorado's front range, a welcome respite from the almost-always-sunny weather, 'cause we need the moisture. Nowhere to go, and nothing to do, because I just finished a project, and have not sourced the wood for the next. Thus the SU doodling.

    I did not look, but there are probably a few other Nakashimas up on the Warehouse. Maybe I just duplicated one.

    Have fun, and show us the progress in pics and words.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethan Melad View Post
    ...the design you have pictures of is pretty nice.
    I agree. Do the legs tilt in two dimensions ?


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