Skewed Rabbet Plane vs. Shoulder Plane

[Chuck Hart]

I think I will just buy both. I picked up a shoulder plane today and I think I will order the rabbet tomorrow. Thanks for your comments guys

[Simon MacGowen]

You made a great decision of getting both. Your 78 story is a common one. People who advise a fellow woodworker based on their experience with the old tools to get a cheaper Stanley, of course, have good intentions. However, many old Stanley planes that are cheap out there need much work before they can perform close to a new plane (whether it is Veritas or LN). Paul Sellers refurbishes a lot of old tools he gets from eBay and advises people to buy old tools, too. But many woodworkers going into handwork may not have the skills or the time to fix a bad tool.

A cheap tool often is not cheap if we budget in the labor and time we put in getting it to good shape. Unless one enjoys fixing or making (tools), one is better off getting a new tool from a proven source -- which Veritas is.

Shoulder plane or skew rabbet plane? The choice is like having just the slot screwdriver or the Phillips. We probably are better off having both.

Simon

[Jim Koepke]

Hi Mike,
I have a Record 78 that is almost identical to the Stanley. I spent some time getting the nicker to work on it but I just can not get the blade aligned to cut a straight line in the path of the nicker. I can get it straight to the mouth and adjusted depth wise but I can't get a consistent cut. This is what prompted the search for a shoulder/rabbet plane.

[edited for clarity]

Chuck

My main rabbet plane is a Record 778. I gave up on using the nicker awhile ago.

For aligning the blade the plane is set on its side and pressed with the lever cap at normal tightness. Another consideration is the edge of the blade should have a slight angle and the meeting of the edge and forward facing surface of the blade should be somewhat sharp. This is the relief angle for clearance along the side.

Instead of relying on a nicker a knifed edge seems to work better for me.

Some cross grain rabbets were on my to do list today. The work was photographed and my intent is to start a new thread so as to not hi-jack this one.

May have to wait until after dinner.

jtk

[Chuck Hart]

My main rabbet plane is a Record 778. I gave up on using the nicker awhile ago.

For aligning the blade the plane is set on its side and pressed with the lever cap at normal tightness. Another consideration is the edge of the blade should have a slight angle and the meeting of the edge and forward facing surface of the blade should be somewhat sharp. This is the relief angle for clearance along the side.

Instead of relying on a nicker a knifed edge seems to work better for me.

Some cross grain rabbets were on my to do list today. The work was photographed and my intent is to start a new thread so as to not hi-jack this one.

May have to wait until after dinner.

jtk

Thanks Jim I forgot about setting the plane on its side to flush the blade to a level surface. It still means you need to have a small corner of the blade to clear the side wall of the rabbet. too many things to remember at one time. I have trouble remembering why I went into the shop.

[Jim Koepke]

It still means you need to have a small corner of the blade to clear the side wall of the rabbet.

In my experience pressing the plane on its side leaves a hair of the blade proud of the side of the plane.

Now that dinner and entertainment are over I'll get to work on a new thread.

jtk

[Warren Mickley]

Thanks Jim I forgot about setting the plane on its side to flush the blade to a level surface. It still means you need to have a small corner of the blade to clear the side wall of the rabbet. too many things to remember at one time. I have trouble remembering why I went into the shop.

For making a rabbet (with the grain), the blade has to stick out beyond the side of the plane a small amount for clearance. If you had a perfectly flat side that was perfectly aligned with the blade there would be trouble as soon as the corner of the blade (which is somewhat vulnerable) dulls.

For making a cross grain rabbet there must be clearance between the spur and the blade so the blade does not rub against the side wall of the rabbet. The blade can be a bit in from the spur, but the spur must be outermost.

So for with the grain blade outermost; for cross grain spur outermost.

[Robert Engel]

I disremembered using a chisel! I watched Phillip Rowe do this to pare the shoulders once.

Is this more accurate than using a shoulder plane?

I'm in the middle of a cabinet project doors and I've been paring the shoulders with a shoulder plane but I'm gonna try the chisel route.
Some times if I'm not careful I get the shoulders out of alignment. Plus I guess you can pare a slight backbevel with a chisel.

I have a LV medium. Got the large and sent it back. Now I wish I had the large.
I, too also use a 78 but only for paring cheeks on large tenons.

Thanks for reminding me about the chisel technique!

[Derek Cohen]

I disremembered using a chisel! I watched Phillip Rowe do this to pare the shoulders once.

Is this more accurate than using a shoulder plane?

Robert, I commented on this earlier. Perhaps I need to clarify methods. Others can comment and agree/disagree/modify - it's useful information for technique building.

1. Firstly, knife the shoulder lines, undercut with a chisel or knife to create a fence for the saw, and saw the shoulders. If your workpiece is square/parallel, then you should have no need for any other work.

2. If you do not saw flush against the fence, you will leave a slight line. This needs to be removed. What I do is place a steel square against the knife line from the reference side of the stretcher. I will then use a sharp knife along the steel edge to slice away the waste. This works if the amount of waste present is small and lines are clear. It also depends on how hard the wood is - it will not work if the waste is too wide to slice away.

3. If there is "thick" waste, such that the knifed line stands out, then take a wide chisel, insert it into the line, and push down. I do not attempt to undercut at this point. Walk the chisel along the shoulder line.

4. If the line remaining is very faint and difficult to see, you can either attempt to use a knife along the steel square as before, or bring the shoulder plane into play. The shoulder plane is set for a very fine shaving to trim away the excess. The shoulder plane enables one to take a shaving, test the fit, take another shaving, etc.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Steve Voigt]

I disremembered using a chisel! I watched Phillip Rowe do this to pare the shoulders once.

Is this more accurate than using a shoulder plane?

I'm a big fan of this technique. Phil Lowe has a good article, I think it's called "5 chisel tricks" or something like that, where he shows this technique.

I would not say it is more accurate than using a shoulder plane; I think it takes more skill and is easier to mess up. But for sure it is faster, and doesn't require another expensive tool.

I have two shoulder planes. I haven't picked up either in a couple years, and it's only inertia and sentimentality that keeps me from selling them.

[Jim Koepke]

Robert, I commented on this earlier. Perhaps I need to clarify methods. Others can comment and agree/disagree/modify - it's useful information for technique building.

1. Firstly, knife the shoulder lines, undercut with a chisel or knife to create a fence for the saw, and saw the shoulders. If your workpiece is square/parallel, then you should have no need for any other work.

2. If you do not saw flush against the fence, you will leave a slight line. This needs to be removed. What I do is place a steel square against the knife line from the reference side of the stretcher. I will then use a sharp knife along the steel edge to slice away the waste. This works if the amount of waste present is small and lines are clear. It also depends on how hard the wood is - it will not work if the waste is too wide to slice away.

3. If there is "thick" waste, such that the knifed line stands out, then take a wide chisel, insert it into the line, and push down. I do not attempt to undercut at this point. Walk the chisel along the shoulder line.

4. If the line remaining is very faint and difficult to see, you can either attempt to use a knife along the steel square as before, or bring the shoulder plane into play. The shoulder plane is set for a very fine shaving to trim away the excess. The shoulder plane enables one to take a shaving, test the fit, take another shaving, etc.

Regards from Perth

Derek

This is a good example of why there isn't just one way or tool that is best for any particular task. Sometimes the same task has different parameters.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

I have both the LN skewed block plane and the LN rabbet block plane. I find the rabbet plane preferable for dressing tenon sides.

Having said that, my large rabbet plane is used more than either of the other planes for tenons.

[Jim Koepke]

Maybe we could have a new thread just for a rabbet family of planes.

Kind of like what Steven did with "show us your smoothers" awhile back.

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

Lowell, I think I misread too; he's talking about the skew rabbet plane - not the skew block rabbet plane.

[Brian Holcombe]

A lot of this comes down to what you build, I have a lot of projects with exposed joinery and so I find myself shoring up a lot of things because of that, stuff that otherwise might not be critical to have exactly perfect. Also, I do a lot of wedged tenons and it is best to have perfectly trimmed tenons with those.

I have one shoulder plane (LN large sized) and I'm glad I have it, it is still quite handy for bigger joinery even though I dont find myself using it for small tenons.

[lowell holmes]

Lowell, I think I misread too; he's talking about the skew rabbet plane - not the skew block rabbet plane.

I also have a left and right hand skew rabbet planes from LV. I wouldn't use them to dress tenon sides. I was taught that 1" bench chisels were what to use.

I will use a large router plane to define the tenon and trim it with a chisel. I mispoke in another post where I rabbet plane.