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Thread: New Workshop On The Way, Looking For Ideas And Help Please!

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    12,298
    Quote Originally Posted by Marion Smith View Post
    ... I don't know how to post a pic, or I would have!
    Marion,

    I learned how to post a picture, assuming it is a file and not a URL somewhere.
    Using an iPad, I click 'reply', then 'go advanced'.
    Scroll down to 'attachments', click 'manage attachments'.
    Choose 'add file' in upper right, click 'choose file' and 'existing' (on iPad), then click 'upload'
    Click 'done' at bottom right.

    Perhaps there is a better or another way, but I haven't found it.

    I tried this with a photo of some gavels I made. Let's see if it works...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Stark County Ohio
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    137
    This is the "Lazy Susan" my wife found on Pinterest. Looks interesting!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    E TN, near Knoxville
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    Marion,

    I've seen variations on the lazy susan idea and it should work ok if you can build it strong enough so it won't wobble. I'd want it to lock so it wouldn't move while working. A stop would avoid over-twisting the cords. I can think of no reason to keep it round - penta or hex would give flat fronts at every tool. Also, the tool storage under this one appears awkward.

    If you could afford the space to move it just two feet from the wall it seems a wide stationary table with tools down both sides and the ends would be far easier to build and much sturdier. More efficient use of the space under as well. Could hang clamps and such on the wall behind

    Another option for limited space is a mobile cart for each tool or two or mobile bases on larger tools, store against the wall and pull out as needed for working space. For example, I keep a Performax 22-44 drum sander against the wall at the outside corner of the welding room on one end of my shop. To use, I roll it a couple of feet into the isle then roll it back. The dust collector hose comes from above and has enough length to remain attached.

    What I prefer for tools I can lift and don't use everyday, such as and oscillating spindle sander, scroll saw, portable router table, etc., is a base cabinet with tools on top and large tool storage space underneath.

    There are lots of workshop books that have good ideas for limited space. I saw a picture where guy put large stationary tools in a quad in the center of the shop, arranged so the outfeed from one went over or otherwise didn't interfere with the next tool.

    I'm sure you are doing this, but I would not have built my shop without laying out the tool placement on cad or paper. I used a large sheet, 2" per foot I think, and cut out shapes not only to represent the size of the tool but the size of the longest stock I imagined using. I went through many iterations! This way, everything fit with no unpleasant surprises and I could pin down locations for 220 and 110 outlets, overhead light fixtures, and dust collector drops. I even positioned double doors I could open to handle long boards on the table saw. I made cut-outs for everything including storage shelves, wood storage, and roll-around work carts. BTW, I put outlets about every 4 feet on all walls as well as in the ceiling for air cleaner and retracting cord reels for hand tools. I also ran air lines in the walls with quick connect outlets around on the walks.

    I forget, did you say you didn't plan to cover the walls? Note that if inspected you may not be allowed to run Romex cable in open walls since people tend to hang things on horizontal cables between the studs or it might be otherwise struck and damaged. I covered all inside walls (and ceilings) with 1/2" plywood so I can fasten shelves and things anywhere.

    As for pine floor, you might consider oil which will soak into the wood somewhat and not scrape off.

    JKJ

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Marion Smith View Post
    Secondly, but hardly last!, what should I run for wire? I will need 220, and for sure want to split lighting and power circuits. I work alone, nothing I have has more than 1-1/2hp, and I can't see any more than lights, the dust collector, and one tool running at the same time.
    It seems no matter how well you plan ahead, you always find you need a receptacle here or a new circuit there. That you've had a shop for 35 years will probably mean you're pretty set with tools and have a good idea about how you're going to lay things out. I would suggest starting off with an overkill electrical layout. From there delete things you know are overkill and keep everything else.

    Since you work alone, you won't be running more than two machines at once, the DC and whatever machine is doing the milling. Put the DC on its own circuit. If you have any 240V equipment, install those receptacles where you need them. You may not need to put each on it's own breaker. If there will never be a time two or more are running and the 240V machines require the same sized breaker, you could run your 240V outlets off one breaker, though if you have more than two, I'd install a second circuit.

    For your 16x32 building, I'd bring in a 100A feed and install a 100A, 24 space panel. But that's just me. I'm an electrician and based on all the sub panels I've installed because the original panel was too small, I like plenty of room left over in the panel after the initial build. In any case, I wouldn't go smaller than 60A.

    Your lighting could be fed from a 15A circuit, depending on how much light you want, but everything else should be 20A, unless the load requires a larger breaker. You might run into GFCI code requirements. Many machines do not run properly or at all when on a GFCI circuit. You can usually get around that by making those circuits dedicated to the machines. All you have to do is make that claim and install some convenience, GFCI-protected outlets spaced according to code.

    And lastly, there's conduit. It gives you the ability to add wires at a later date. And if you close up the walls, you'll be happy you installed it when it's time to add something later.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Stark County Ohio
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    137
    Great ideas and info, please keep them coming! My first colossal error would have been wiring capacity for sure. 100AMP Panel it is! Gives me all I need and room to add with no woes. My experience has been working with one lousy 15 or 20amp circuit because that's all I had! I'm starting to wrap my head around the possibilities here...or is that the "rabbit hole" mentioned on a previous reply?

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Lasalle,Ontario
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    299
    Its not a rabbit hole it is the path that any reasonable person would take.
    Repeat that to yourself as many times as needed.

  7. #22
    A lot of people make the mistake of keeping the electrical distribution to a minimum. Sometimes that stems from the fear of going down a road they have never traveled and sometimes the belief is they can get what they want for cheaper if they cut the electrical portion of the shop to just what they need at the moment. In the later case, it almost always becomes a "Pay me now or pay me later" scenario. In the former case, it's not hard to do when you start with a clean slate, as you would when adding a sub panel. Most of the difficult problems come when there is already improperly installed wiring distribution in place and you add to that.

    I did a couple of electrical tutorials that are stickys in this section. Take a look at them and if you have any questions, post them there and I'll answer them.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    SoCal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Andrew View Post
    I'd build a lean to on the outside for the dust collector and the air compressor.
    +1 on this. It is my greatest handicap. Dad did it and I am so jealous.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Terrace, BC
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    519
    I run a one man shop in northern Canada on 100 amp - and it's JUST enough. Others have pointed out that you'll be running only one machine at a time, and that's true - BUT, your DC will be running, your lights will be lit, your air cleaner(s) will be running, the tool you're using will be running, your heater will be running (in the winter)/AC will be running (in the summer), and then your air compressor will kick in.

    I have three banks of 8 fluorescent fixtures (two bulb, 4' T8s), each on their own 15 amp circuit; a "220 tool circuit" which is a 20 amp 220 single phase circuit which powers my drum sander, my bandsaw, and my edge sander; a 30 amp 220 single phase circuit for my Felder combo; a 20 amp 220 single phase circuit for my air compressor; a 20 amp 220 single phase circuit for my DC; a 20 amp 110 circuit for the office (which includes a small fridge and coffee maker, computer, printer, lights); two 15 amp wall plug circuits (plugs are 4' above the floor, and each plug is split between the two circuits - I wish I'd thought of a race like someone mentioned above); a 20 amp "tool island" circuit which powers my secondary bandsaw, my secondary table saw, a mitre saw, and a couple of plugs; a 15 amp circuit which supplies exterior lights, exterior plugs, and lights and door opener for the garage (my shop has a garage attached in an "L" configuration). It works very well for me - if I were to change anything, I would upgrade the two 15 amp plug circuits to 20 amps, and enclose the wiring in a race.

    I'd second others who have mentioned insulation and at least minimal heating. If you're using a propane heater to raise the temperature whenever you wish to work there, you will have a condensation problem and find that rust control becomes a headache. Keeping the shop at a minimal (say 45 fahrenheit) will minimize this problem.

    However it works out for you, have fun - I still bound out of bed every morning anxious to get out to the shop.
    I love mankind. It's people I can't stand.

  10. #25
    Marion,

    I am designing a new shop to build this summer (I'm limited on space living in town so 18x22 is the max) so I am looking at ways to use the space better. I'm thinking flip-top carts to double up tool space and for portability and better access if needed. I think I like it better than the lazy susan idea...
    FliptopCart.jpg
    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Schnorr; 05-17-2015 at 9:20 AM. Reason: moved picture
    Mike Schnorr
    CNCs - Camaster Stinger (25"x36"x5"), Shopbot (4'x4'), Roland Modela (6"x8"x2 3/8")
    Laser Engravers - Epilog Legend (12"x24" - 25W)
    Embroidery Machines - SWF t1501C, Brother BAS-416, Renaissance, Melco EMC1, Melco EP1

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bloomington, IL
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    6,009
    Mike Schnorr, have you considered a tool dock copy? One bench with a cutout for the tools on a a base that fits the cut out, and the base on the tools that fit a shelf.
    Glad its my shop I am responsible for - I only have to make me happy.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    667
    Quote Originally Posted by Marion Smith View Post
    After 35 years of working out of a basement and/or garage space, my wife just surprised me with a 16x32 out building! It's a gable type with 8' walls and engineered trusses, and will have 2x6 T&G flooring. One end will need to remain 'open' to store the Miata during the winter.
    My first question is, has anyone with this type floor given it a bit of sanding then finish with a few coats of poly? Good idea? Bad idea?
    Secondly, but hardly last!, what should I run for wire? I will need 220, and for sure want to split lighting and power circuits. I work alone, nothing I have has more than 1-1/2hp, and I can't see any more than lights, the dust collector, and one tool running at the same time.
    I have a small shop, even smaller than yours. You can see the interior of it here, its 12 x 24 https://www.dropcam.com/p/DitNTo

    I had 60 amp run out to a panel in the shop and have several 230volt outlets and one 240 volt outlet. I also have a bunch of 120 volt outlets as well. The 240 runs to a 40 amp circuit (planers can draw a lot of amps). The lighting in my shop is fantastic, not a dark place in it, take a look.

    My shop started as a Hip-roof style shed, looks more like a small house than a shed. I used 1/2inch plywood as interior siding and then painted it. I put insulation all around it and on top. I bought a direct vent heater and have an A/C in it. I also sealed it up airtight. It keeps heat/cool better than my home.

    I installed 3/4inch maple over the plywood floor and finished it with Bona Court Poly sealer and finisher. The floor looks fantastic and because I used a finishing product meant for a gym, its pretty grippy too! Looks fantastic and has enough hardeners in the finish that it takes a lot to scratch it and its completely seal proof so no matter what is spilled on it, oil, water etc., it doesn't penetrate the finish. I plan on putting the DC outside to save space because I don't have much

    I hired someone to do the electric because that is one thing I'm not qualified for and if anything happens, I can go back to them to fix it.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
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    12,298
    I put a 100A, 24 space panel in my shop thinking I'd have plenty of spaces left over then filled it up right away. Lights on two different breakers for safety, limits on how many outlets I put on each 110 breaker, 220 for the tools, 220 for welders, 220 for HVAC inside, 220 for HVAC outside, 220 to sub-panel for cyclone/big air compressor, sub-panel to the barn - it adds up fast! The current capacity is fine but the panel spaces are full.

    I made it work but if I did it again I'd find a bigger panel.

  14. #29
    [QUOTE=Marion Smith;2412054]At this point, I have no plans to insulate or close in the walls.
    I completed my shop at Christmas 2014 and I am currently working on dust collection - a real jigsaw puzzle with all the varying port sizes on various tools. Just a few thoughts for you. First - Electrical - I did not close in the walls and therefore used aluminum clad cable. A little complicated for a first-time install, but it worked out well. The standard box is a 4" x 4" that can house two devices. I used them for two switches and two duplex outlets and placed them both 14" off the floor and 48" off the floor using the "pigtail" method where the current is fed downstream through the wire and not just the device. I invested in a whole-house surge protector $40, that takes some space in the breaker panel, but I hope to avoid losing electronic ballasts (very susceptible to power surges)on a dozen different fluorescent fixtures.
    - Another thought that you may or may not have control over since it sounds like your building is a pre-determined package - I am more than pleased and surprised at the benefit I'm seeing from radiant barrier foil. I used roof sheathing with a foil face, then galvalume roofing over an air space (to let the foil work). Additionally, I wrapped the entire building in pro-dex, a double bubble foil, then provided an air space, before the finished siding. I live in SE Louisiana and am amazed that the shop keeps the cool of overnight until early to mid-afternoon. I'm on a slab and the earthen contact helps, but the exterior foil sure seems to perform better than I ever expected.
    - Lastly, I had to move all the "stuff" into my double carport for over a year while I built the shop and I used shelving that could be easily removed and used in the new workshop. One unit that I'm really pleased with is a 3 ft by 4 ft shelving unit that is 8 ft tall. I put it on casters so that I could shove it into a corner and leave just enough room to get to small things stored on the two back sides. If I need to get to larger things, it is on wheels and pulls out easily. 5 shelves with each 12 sq ft of storage provides lots of storage. The side facing the shop has a french cleat system that holds lots of tools, e.g. hammers, levels, utility knives, screwdrivers, etc. The stuff stored behind the french cleat system is easily accessed from the two adjacent sides. Storage on this unit is prioritized by frequency of use, bulk of the stored items, shelf spacing, etc.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
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    12,298
    Dennis - where did you find your 3x4x8 shelving unit? I could use some of like that. I bought about a dozen 18"x4'x6' high wire shelving on casters, 6 shelves each. These are great but I have some things to store that are too big.

    JKJ

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