Hammer K3 Winner - What I've learned in the last 6 months

[Mike Cahill]

Hi there

First time poster. I purchased a Hammer K3 Winner sliding table saw and an A31 Planer/Jointer about 6 months ago. I moved from a cabinet saw with lots of jigs and fixtures, Incra miter sled etc etc. and it has been a bit of a learning curve so thought I’d share in case it is useful to others.

Pre-purchase
It took me a while to pull the trigger, figure out what I wanted etc. Liz Rogers (E.Rogers@felderusa.com) was (and still is) exceedingly helpful before, during and after the sale. I did find it hard to figure out which accessories I needed so to save others time, get the dust port adapter to convert from the European size to our usual 4” – this is a must have. Also, if you decide to get extensions, they are the same between machines (e.g. I can use the same extension ‘table’ on the saw or the jointer/ or the planer – you just need the mounting kits for each machine. Also get the ‘mobility’ kit – these machines are HEAVY.

They’ll arrive extremely well packed on pallets. The unpacking takes a long time as you have to break down the crate they are in etc. You need a pallet jack. I ended up buying one as I knew setup was going to take a few days. Harbor freight have one for a reasonable price that I got a big discount on with a coupon and was then able to sell on Craig’s List a few weeks later.
http://www.harborfreight.com/materia...ack-68761.html

Also, you need a couple of friends. I had to build a ramp to get the jointer/planer off the pallet. Again these machines are HEAVY.

Hold-downs
I’ve seen lots of discussions about hold-downs/clamps for the sliding table. I have found that the following work just fine.

Budget: These work but are a little flimsy - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
IMG_4491.jpg

Medium: Needs a washer to make it fit into the t-slot on the table:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
IMG_4493.jpg

Best: These came with my FMT jig but they sell them separately. These work great. And not too pricey! You need the surface mount model.
https://www.leighjigs.com/hold-down_clamp.php
IMG_4490.jpg

Finally, get some of these:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
They have a ¼” X 20 thread and self-center in the various T-slots. They also work for attaching things to the fence etc. They are great.
IMG_4492.jpg

Ripping
Have also seen lots of discussions on ripping. I am not using the sliding table for the final rip-to width. I am using the rip fence just like I did with my cabinet saw. I had some Maglock featherboards, clamp, a custom saw guard with anti-kickback pawls etc. I like using a feather board to prevent kickback and keep the board against the fence and my fingers away from the blade. I found that the Kreg featherboards fit and work great. Just use the plastic insert that comes with them to make them fit into the slot and you’re off. I also slide the fence back to the center of the blade so nothing can get trapped between fence and blade.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I haven’t used the sliding table to make the initial rip (the one you usually use a jointer for) but am going to try that out having read about it.
IMG_4489.jpg

Crosscut fence
I was spoiled, I came from an Incra Miter 5000 sled. I work with hardwood 99.9% of the time and am used to supporting the work piece at point of contact with the blade to reduce or eliminate tearout. The crosscut fence on the saw is a couple of inches shy of the blade. Also, what if I want to cut small pieces? I’ve been messing with sacrificial fences attached to the fence using the parts mentioned above (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and some 14” X 20 screws. This works fine but then I can’t use any of the stops that came with the fence and you have to clamp stops to the fence. Again this works fine but sometimes, especially when making boxes, you want two stops – one for the short side length and one for the long side length and you need to flip the short one up out of the way as you alternate between pieces.

After much experimentation I came up with the following. I found that Kreg swing stops (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) fit the fence if you attach them with the nuts I mentioned earlier (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and some thumb bolts (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1). You can then make a piece of wood that is the height of the fence but longer, that fits between the fence and the stop (about 7/16 thick), attach it to the fence using those miraculous wedge shaped nuts again and some screws and you have a sacrificial fence with stops.
IMG_4495.jpgIMG_4497.jpgIMG_4498.jpg


Photos of everything I have mentioned attached. Please let me know if there are any questions or if I can explain anything further.

Cheers

Mike

[Rick Potter]

Welcome to the creek, Mike. Looks like you have some great ideas.

I just went through all the Faztek stuff on Amazon. Lots of ideas there. I notice that those t-nuts are available in several sizes, including metric......gotta get some 5/16". That heavy duty aluminum track looks pretty good too.

Rick

[ian maybury]

Hi Mike, We headed down similar routes on mods, but in slightly different ways. I've an 8ft K3 Perform in Ireland bought in 2011. How was the set up on yours as received? Mine has eventually proven a very satisfactory saw, but as received was thrown together and took a lot of dialling in to sort table, blade tilt, slider alignment and other issues. One way to get to know your saw! I think Felder US may run a local tune up on the US ones as the issue doesn't seem to arise with you guys?

I'm running a metric Incra miter fence (photo) in my slider, it's been very good. I'd agree that having a sacrificial fence is convenient (essential?) if only to know where the line of cut falls. The bar needed packing with self adhesive UHMW and planing to size to sort the fit. (photo) One issue is that the bar projects some distance up the slider slot and can at times block access for work clamps placed close in to the fence, it also can only be removed from the outfeed end - i'm about to mill a slot in the sheet metal handle (2nd photo) bracket at the user end of the slider so that it can be slid out that end and removed when needed. I'll also see about shortening and turning it around.

I made DIY work clamps from F clamps (photo), they work fine too. Those Leigh clamps look like a very nifty idea for smaller work though, as do the Irvin track saw clamps. I'm a bit cautious about the possibility of damage to the anodising if using steel nuts and stuff in the T slot, so i made my T nuts from phenolic/compressed fabric board. (photo) This can be worked on a router table, sawn etc.

The Hammer rip fence is massively upgraded and these days gets good reports, but acting on information about the original one i fitted a metric Incra TS LS rip fence. (photo) I wanted the positioning capability anyway and it's so far been very good - amazed at the accuracy and how precisely it holds toe out settings. Just about the only downside is that it's a bit more awkward to remove than a stock fence for very occasiona extra wide rip cuts off the slider. My rip table is DIY too - i just didn't like the sheet metal.

I rip off the slider a lot of the time. It's the way to go when you want a dead on straight edge, but when i need repetitive parallel sided strips of exactly the same width i have to admit i drop back to using the rip fence. The issue the slider throws up as you know is that realistically you have to be able to accurately place the work on it relative to the line of cut. I haven't figured out yet if the mythical 'experts' do this routinely.

Sorting out methods to position work on the slider in all situations is a work in progress, but i get good use out of various lengths of stop rules referenced off the edge of the slider. (Shinwa do certified accuracy rules with accessory stops in lots of lengths, Lee Valley do some shorter ones) The Fritz and Frans device seems a very useful and easily made accessory too, set up so that it's trimmed off using the saw it also gives a line of cut reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqzVglze9Nk I'm awaiting a shop relayout for room to fit my 1200mm cross cut fence and frame, and will build one then.

It's also possible to use parallel bars to set up cuts off the slider. Brian lamb on the Felder Owners Group site (there's only a very little by way of Hammer interest there) does a set of parallel fences/stops that get good feedback: http://www.lambtoolworks.com/products.html I have a DIY set almost finished….

overview+k3+incra+100se.jpguhmw+skinned+mitre+bar+k3+incra+1000se.jpgclamp+in+use.jpgT+nut-clamp+detail.jpgk3 with incra rip fence.jpg

[Jim Andrew]

I've had my Hammer K3 about a year, and use the slider for ripping to get a straight edge. I ordered the Hammer clamp, but don't care much for it. I use a Kreg T track clamp, first cut a piece of 1/2" phenolic, but it broke, so used a piece of steel, and it works fine. I don't over tighten it. Still think the Biesemeyer fence is a better fence, although don't see how one would work with the slider. Built my own outfeed table, clamp a block on it as a stop for the slider, as the stop on mine is not in the right place, and can rip better between fence and blade with the slider farther forward. I have the 79" slider.

[Preston Hoffman]

This post has been extremely helpful. One question I have for Ian is if you like the incra HD setup? I have an Incra HD, but never considered using it on the slider. Is it preferred over the Hammer supplied miter gauge? Have you considered purchasing the double miter gauge EGL from Felder?

[Wakahisa Shinta]

I am still tinkering with my K3 and a hold down solution. This thread gives me more ideas. Thank you for sharing.

I had the same concern as Ian Maybury about damaging the aluminum sliding table, so made my T-slot nut out of oak. I milled 5 feet worth of oak T-slot bar that I can chop to size and use whenever. Quite easy to do with the planer and a router in a router table.

[ian maybury]

Hi Preston. The Incra Miter gauge for all its simplicity has in fact been amazingly precise. It stays as set for months after month.

There may be differing Hammer short mitre gauges about, but the one i was offered while having a substantial short fence attached (a bit heavier than the Incra one) didn't seem to have any built in angle setting capability. Which was why i went for the Incra. There is however the option of mating the Hammer gauge with some sort of precision angle setting device.

I've used the Incra a lot and it definitely repeats very well and stays in adjustment - but if i'm to be honest i haven't used it all that much on jobs requiring lots of different high precision angles to numerical values. The reports are good - but in the end accuracy in degree terms is down to how accurately the individual detents are cut in the disc. Perhaps Incra can offer a tolerance/number?

The EGL is reportedly to be capable and convenient (there's a nifty version with all sorts of built in calculation i think), although i've never used one. It's very expensive. I had the Incra gauge on the shelf before i bought the K3 as i'd dabbled with upgrading the previous saw.

The big issue with digital/electronic angle setting gauges is that it's actually very tough to get down to genuinely high levels of accuracy with them. The better ones go to about 1/10 degree which sounds very accurate, but if you work out the error that amounts to on the side of a large (e.g 3ft) panel its about 0.06in or 1.5mm. Which is quite a lot - a decent gap. Going much tighter electronically starts to quickly get very expensive...

[James Zhu]

Martin USA sells the Fritz and Franz from RUMI, a great safety device for slider. A martin dealer introduced this new product in Felder forum a month ago.

http://www.martin-usa.com/products/f...e-saw-comfort/

[Wakahisa Shinta]

My version of the F&F jig was simple to make. Two UHMW tracks milled to snugly fit the T slot on the slider table. These are then attached to 1" thick hard wood blocks, making sure the blocks are squared to the blade. These blocks are then trimmed by the blade with the first cut to create a sort of zero-clearance front and back "fences" that a piece of lumber is held in between. For now, I have been using this jig to use the sliding table for ripping.

[Chris Parks]

I put a Wixey on the rip fence and use that for a measured stop using the F&F method to hold anything I am ripping on the slider. I rarely have to use the rip fence ala a normal TS and can't see why hold downs are necessary when using the F&F method. It is the single greatest idea for sliders since the slider was invented I reckon. I wish I could come up with a built in stop system for it. The cross cut fence can be moved closer to the blade by moving the stops in the fence if you want.

[Chris Parks]

Martin USA sells the Fritz and Franz from RUMI, a great safety device for slider. A martin dealer introduced this new product in Felder forum a month ago.

http://www.martin-usa.com/products/f...e-saw-comfort/

Any idea of the price James and will it fit the Hammer table slot?

[Susumu Mori]

Hi Chris,

Could you elaborate more about using Wixey mounted on the rip fence?
Can you somehow measure the distance,,,, which distance?

I'm also using F&F extensively and very curious.

[Chris Parks]

I installed the Wixey on the rip fence and it is zeroed from the blade. If I want to rip using the F&F method I pull the rip fence back so it is clear of the blade and set the width required on the rip fence. The timber is then pushed against the rip fence to set the width and locked into the F&F jig and then ripped using the slider. If the rip is longer than the slider will allow then the the conventional TS method is used. Does that answer your question?

[Susumu Mori]

Thanks Chris,

So the Wixey provides essentially the same information as the rip fence scale, I guess?

[Susumu Mori]

Just got a call. They are not sure if they fit Hammer and the prices are $418/$625 for two different versions. Wow.

I stick with my hand-made version that serves me well.