Razor Sharp Edgemaking, grinding wheel combo

[Mike Holbrook]

I am wondering if anyone has tried this sharpening/grinding combo of two wheels and grinding/buffing compounds? According to Woodcraft this grinding buffing combo "virtually eliminating any chance of bluing your tools". They claim these two laminated paper wheels will create a mirror finish. The combo of a grinding wheel, buffing wheel, silicon carbide, conditioning grease, jewelers rouge and instructions costs $56.99. I am wondering if the conditioning grease and grit combo might produce less airborne particles than friable wheels? It sounds kind of like a spinning MDF wheel with compounds and grease to alter and control the wheels cutting ability.

[Derek Cohen]

Do you have a link?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

I am very much opposed to such edge buffing methods. They produce rounded edges. Pretty sharp,but excessively rounded for my taste. And,not as sharp as can be obtained by hand sharpening and stropping. They also wear out your tools a lot faster than hand honing will.

[Mike Holbrook]

Derek I'm not sure the rules are ok with me linking to a Woodcraft page. If you go to Woodcraft and search "grinding wheels" a little minor scrolling should reveal the product.

George, I had/have similar initial concerns. On the other hand MDF may not be much different. Micarta, used in knife handles among other things, is a paper based resin impregnation that is very hard. I think the wood pulp just gives the resin/binder something to absorb into. As I understand it these are not "soft" buffing wheels like the felt or leather wheels but something more like MDF. One of the wheels is actually suppose to be for grinding in combo with the silicon carbide. A complete grinding and polishing system. What is silicon carbide? I know what silicon is and I know what carbide is, is this substance carbide in silicon? I have already said more than I understand though which is why I am making the post.

[Jim Koepke]

I have already said more than I understand though which is why I am making the post.

Maybe a look from a different perspective would provide answers.

My question is what is your current sharpening set up and what has you looking to change it?

jtk

[Allen Jordan]

I have this kit and use it often for sharpening curved edges. I make knives and there is nothing better out there for sharpening them. Usually about 30 seconds to a nice razor edge... raise a burr with the coarse grit wheel, then strop it off on the fine rouge wheel, done. I also sharpen drawknives, axes, heavily cambered plane irons and the like this way. They're not the best for straight edges like chisels or planes, I'll only sharpen beater chisels on the paper wheels because of the speed.

Paper wheels do take a few uses to condition properly with wax/rouge. While conditioning, it's easy to burn an edge if you stop moving. After conditioning, I've had no problems with this. Practice with junk knives until you get the hang of them.

[Mike Holbrook]

Jim, I'm afraid the answer to your question could get quite involved. Just like many others I am always looking to enhance my sharpening system(s). I have a number of older posts that describe what I have:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ing&highlight=
The above post I am running on the turners forum as I have particular questions regarding sharpening turning tools. I ran a similar post here on the Neander site. Part of the solution has to do with the tool rests and jigs available to go with the grinders many people use. I have posts on that topic as well. As the above post tries to explain I am sharpening some odd shaped hand tool blades for Windsor Chair making as well as turning tools. In addition I have a large selection of interesting edged blades I use clearing brush, trimming trees etc. on our 12 acre dog club fields and woods...

The main interest I have in the above wheels has to do with me possibly buying a second grinder. I bought a Delta fairly recently but I am having trouble using the tool rests I bought to use with CBN wheels on the Delta grinder. Apparently Delta and other companies have started making the arbors on their grinders shorter, making it harder to use them with CBN wheels and some of the larger tool rests and tool jigs, like the Wolverine and Batty rests. I am considering putting the CBN wheels on a better grinder with a longer arbor and smaller base. I could then use normal width wheels on the Delta grinder. I am reading that some steels will load CBN wheels and become hard to clean off. So I am thinking about a grinding and buffing wheel for the Delta grinder to handle softer steels that may cause problems on the CBN wheels.

I like the MDF block I use with buffing compounds to polish/finish blade surfaces. My issue with the MDF block is it is a little slow and rounded blades do not fit on it. Peter Galbert charges a hard wood dowel placed on his lathe as a buffing finishing tool for his hand tools and turning tools. I have seen Drew Langsner at Country Workshops use a similar set up quite effectively for sharpening all the tools used in his classes. I am wondering if I might be able to do something similar on my Delta grinder suing the Razor Sharp Edgemaing wheels Woodcraft sells.

[george wilson]

I have used paper layered micarta to make knife handles. It is bakelite impregnated paper or linen layers. Micarta is Westinghouse's trademark name. Originally used as an electrical insulator.

What I do not care for is not the MDF or the Micarta. It is the speed of the revolving wheels.

Your razor sharpness may be different from mine. I have been handed knives by a variety of guys from young to old,and told they were razor sharp. Some were like miniature sawtoothed edges. Others were smooth edged,but about as sharp as butter knives.

Pfiel carving tools come with buffed edges. Fairly sharp,but very rounded over. Not to my liking,though I like Pfiel tools just fine as far as the steel they are made from and their temper. No doubt the factory had to find some way of putting edges on many chisels each day. Or,they could just have gone like in the old days,and not put an edge on them at all.

[Tom McMahon]

Many years ago we used walrus wheels (actually cut from walrus hide), they were charged with various sized grits using hide glue for the course grits. They worked but seemed to constantly need to be recharged, it was a pain, maybe this is an improvement.

[Jim Koepke]

Mike,

Thanks, you have answered my question well.

Your razor sharpness may be different from mine.

Makes me think of the recent post from someone who shaved hair after only honing on 80 grit paper. Sure, it can be done, but it was likely not a very comfortable shave.

So far my disk based power sharpening system seems to work pretty well for me along with hand sharpening. For curved edges and lathe tools I just have to do them some what free hand.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

I´ll go with George on this.

At the very last in sharpening, stopping at the right moment is vital.

High speeds may be manageable in the first step, but slower methods offer predictable, repeatable results.

This is complicated when you have small pieces of steel as in most plane blades.

I still have the first decent iron I managed to overheat and ruin with "power strop".

[george wilson]

My wet wheel grinder has the felt wheel attachment for honing. I don't use it.

[Allen Jordan]

I should clarify that the resulting sharpness is more than adequate for pretty much everything but shaving hair. The edge produced looks like a mirror, but under a microscope you would see polished tiny serrations. Any knife I sharpen on the wheels can cut computer paper at any angle, and slice dangling newsprint like it's not there. I've compared the results to my 15k shapton pro stone on my beater chisels when shaving end grain pine/etc, and the paper wheels make a better cutting edge (though they do slightly round-over bevels and likely remove more material overall). The main benefits are speed and easy sharpening of curves.

[Steve Voigt]

Mike,

I've been reading your posts with some puzzlement over the last year or two. There have been posts about the many chisels, gauges, drill bits reamers, scrapers, etc. that you buy or are planning to buy. Then there were the cbn wheels, grinding attachments, a second (!) grinder; and now a gimmicky (in my opinion) power stropping system. I am waiting for the thread titled "do I need to build a second workshop to store my tools?" If I lived near you, I think I'd grab some friends and family and stage an intervention.

You probably don't want it, but my advice is this: You want to build Windsor chairs. All the great chairmakers I know of started out, as professionals, with very minimal toolkits. That's one of the real attractions of chairmaking. You can make chairs with about a dozen tools, give or take. It sounds like you need a lathe; a couple weeks scanning craigslist should get you one that's more than adequate, for a couple hundred bucks. It sounds like you already have all the other tools you need. Start making some chairs. If you run into a problem you can't solve, then maybe that's the time to get another tool. But you don't need a second grinder. You don't need the power strop. You don't need half the tools you have.All they are doing is getting between you and what you want to make.

My two cents and ymmv. Nothing personal, and I don't mean to give offense. Good luck.

[Pedro Reyes]

... What is silicon carbide? I know what silicon is and I know what carbide is, is this substance carbide in silicon? I have already said more than I understand though which is why I am making the post.

It was me who shaved hair straight from 80 grit, I was trying to make a point that mirror polish doesn't always equal sharp by proving the opposite to be true (unpolished cabe sharp). Albeit that edge would not last long because it was many tiny serrated sharp edges that would break.

I am with most here, stropping works better for me slowly and it can ruin an edge if not careful (even hand stropping).

I am no Chemist, but Silicon Carbide is SiC, one atom of Silicon and one of Carbon if I recall correctly, we machined parts out of that stuff, ~17K a pop, for semiconductor reactors. tehy looked like a very high tolerance flat pizza with some features, always wanted to get my hands on a broken one and try it as a lapping surface, a $17,000 lapping surface LOL.

Pedro