Disappointed with LV apron plane.

[Matthew N. Masail]

I wanted to share this because I think it's important to know for potential buyers of this tool, especially those who do not live in the US or Canada. plus I have no one else to rant to.

I have owned the Veritas Apron Plane for 5 years. it's a great tool, I use it quite a bit but hardly daily. the other day I couldn't adjust the blade to a thick cut, the adjuster wouldn't turn. I tried loosening the lever cap and it still wouldn't turn, so I took a closer look, as it turns out, I'm out of usable blade! I thought "that"s weird... how much blade did I use?..." the blade being A2 and used on endgrain will chip at a bevel angle lower than 32 degrees or so, so I did need to sharpen through a few chips, but to run out of blade ? I mean... blades do chip sometimes... so I contacted Lee Valley:

As it turns out, you get just slightly over 3\8 of usable blade, that's it! LV costumer service said "we suggest you try a PMV-11 blade that should hold up better"

What can it do? I mean... yeah ok buy a new blade, but I don't live in the US or Canada! plus the point for me really is - I expected a smarter design from Veritas, 3\8' seems like a joke to me.

by comparison I have a copy of a Stanley 102 at work with notches in the blade that gives around 1 1\4" !
So if I had thought the Apron plane to be good value, turns out it cost's more than the LN 102 in the long run. considering that I cannot just buy a new blade without paying high shipping and then extra fees (because LV won't use regular postal service), I will have to put the plane aside until I have someone to bring the blades for me. even than, I will have to buy 2-3 blades to insure I have a long life span for the plane. I think it's crazy, I might as well buy a new LN 102, at least I won't feel ripped off.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Matthew

Can you drill another hole for the adjuster? A carbide drill bit should be able to do this.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John A langley]

Buy the L N 102 and shelve the apron plane

[Matthew N. Masail]

Hi Matthew

Can you drill another hole for the adjuster? A carbide drill bit should be able to do this.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek,

I wish, but the slot in the blade is also almost hitting a screw that holds down the lever cap.

[Pedro Reyes]

05p2706s1.jpg

I own one, not sure I will ever go through 3/8" of A2, but I share the burden between other block planes as well.

Are you saying that the slot is your limiting factor? I can measure mine, but it looks to be more than 3/8", I realize there is play at the front too, but it seems like comfortably more than 3/8", so the idea of another hole seems reasonable, albeit a pain and not fair as a customer.

Pedro

[Matthew N. Masail]

LV confirmed a little more than 3\8 as the max, because the adjuster hits the casting. the slot running into the screw makes another hole a moot point, because at most you might gain 1\8"-1\4" of extra blade, not really worth the cost of a carbide bit (not even sure where to get that or how much it would cost) + the time. either way like you said I shouldn't have to drill into a hardened blade. I really do feel cheated by LV because I think their Famous "Innovation in tools" should exclude "bad design". now I can't help but wonder the other tools they make.

[Prashun Patel]

This blade design also does not lend itself to side-clamping honing jigs.

I do have to ask though, how aggressively are you sharpening? I sharpen mine weekly at least and it seems like I still have a ways to go before it becomes useless. I've had mine for 4-ish years now.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I agree 3/8 isn't much, but I also have to say it's enough to last a long time unless you are constantly changing bevel angles or something. Do you grind on a grinder?

[Judson Green]

What John said.

Nice little plane, you won't be disappointed.


Ya know I'm mostly a vintage guy and the old tools i buy were born with tons of iron available to use, so many of the relics I pick up will still serve me a lifetime.

Also, don't mean to sidetrack but, Matthew what happened to the wood you harvested?

[Rob Lee]

Buy the L N 102 and shelve the apron plane

Hi,

Pretty sure the LN has the same useable blade life as ours...perhaps someone would verify that.

The problem with useable blade life in a small plane is balancing the locus of three or more blade contact or clearance requirements ... The slot to accommodate the lever cap screw, the useable cutting area, and the travel of whatever drives the blade....and sometimes a clamp pad.

Each of these "consumes" a percent of the total blade...

Rob

[John A langley]

Rob Lee ifyou read the op post you might see what my remarks meant I have spent some coins with you and also With L N and I'm completely satisfied with both companies

[lowell holmes]

I bet most of us have bought from both companies.

I have the apron plane. I bought it not long after it was introduced.

We all use tools differently, Matthew must sharpen his plane a lot.

I can't imagine going through mine in my lifetime. The iron is not thin or soft. Mine sharpens like I expect it to, and the thickness of the iron helps when sharpening and honing by hand.

I flattened the back soon after I got it (the ruler trick) and since then hone by hand. I also put a micro-bevel on it. I was making translucent shavings with it today.

I think it is possible that Matthew uses his plane differently than I do, so the plane might not be appropriate for his use. He might sell his and purchase a plane that suits his need.

[Greg R Bradley]

Rob,

My low angle LN102 would have use 5/8" of blade before you would run out of adjustment. I love that plane almost as much as I love my NX60 but they have different uses.

It seems to me that the Norris style adjuster sacrifices some total travel of the blade. I'm certainly a plane novice but it seems like a good tradeoff to me in favor of the LV. I would imagine there is virtually no room for that on a plane as small as the LN102.

[glenn bradley]

There are several benefits to the blade design. The amount of travel is a trade off for those benefits. I have a couple of irons for mine at different bevels and wouldn't give it up for the world. I understand how your location makes things difficult. The LN 102 has a solid blade with the control notch very near the rear so I guess it would be good until you ran out of threads on the adjuster.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Rob, I think your comment is very misleading. I can't tell for sure about to LN 102, but at work we have a Luban 102 http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/...ane.html#SID=4
which is a copy on the LN in bronze. the blade has many notches in it so that even if you ran out of travel you can change the notch. I calculated getting about 1 1\4 blade out of the design. I would think the 102 is the same.
I don't mean to imply it is easy to design a plane, I know that is not true! but I feel you made a compromise with this one that makes the tool a bad value.

Regarding my sharpening, the apron was my only block plane for 4 1\2 years, and it was used a lot on end-grain, so it got chipped a few times - I had to grind it. I probably went through it faster than any other blade I have as most others don't need grinding nearly as often ( A2 can be chippy at less than 30+ bevel angle). I still feel 3\8 is a statement that the tool is meant for an amateur\hobbist not someone who spends a lot of time with his hand tools. as said here the old tools I've seen all take blade life into account as an important factor.