Do I really need a dedicated computer for each Universal Laser?

[Bert Kemp]

I not arguing with any of this Just curious as to why some think its a bad idea. I guess we all can continue corel work while the laser is running. Its just my laser has internal memory and some think this is not good I guess don't know why. But I think its off the OP's original ? of do we need dedicated computers for each laser.

I do that all the time with my ULS, no problem.
See my post above about what the PC is actually doing while the laser is running.

[Scott Shepherd]

I don't understand why thats a bad thing? Once I send a job to the laser I can unplug the usb cable and the job will run and complete. Not that I would do that but I can. Once the job is running I can then set up next job in the lasercut software and have it ready to send to laser when the prev job is done. I would not be able to do that if the job is being sent commands from the computer.

Bert, it's not a "bad" thing, there are just "better" ways. What you are talking about is the different in a print driver and a Job Control System. Two totally different things. What you can't do on your print driver system is go back to a job you ran in a rush 4 weeks ago and pull all the settings from that job, or actually run that job again without having to open CorelDraw or hit "print" in any software.

It also allows you to put many jobs on the same piece of material outside of Coreldraw. If you cut a lot of things from the same material, then you are well versed in the practice of opening all the files and cutting and pasting part after part into one master corel file, then hitting print. With Job Control, you can do that very easily outside of Corel, so there's no need to make that master file in Corel.

There are so many benefits to Job Control when it comes to productivity that it's not even something I'd ever consider buying a laser without. But then again, some of us use our lasers to run production and some of us use them for hobbies. If I used it as a hobby, then it probably wouldn't matter at all to me.

On the Universal, you can have 2000 jobs in storage. They don't go away when you turn the machine off and on again.

Just to show another example, we ran wedding invitations last week. The customer wanted a score line to bend the invitation. There's a feature on the Trotec system called "link". You can have it vary the power across a line. In my case, I set it to lightly score the paper, but every 1/16" of an inch, go deeper, but not through the paper. So it made an invisible perforation that weakened the paper so it bent really easy but kept the strength. All I did in Corel was make a straight line, then in my settings, I told it to use that feature and it was done. If I had to do that by hand, it would have taken me more time on the job.

[Joe Walmer]

Well scott I understand cnc machines used to be run on pc's with parallel ports etc. But now adays people are replacing legacy cnc systems like that with onboard controllers. Those have been driven by the huge explosion tech of 3d printers in the last 5-8 years and what would have cost thousands of dollars and needed trained experts to do now can be done by a 14 year old kid and 120$ and an Arduino that costs 15$. the good part is most people just pop in a board like tinyg or a smoothieboard, hook up the motor connections and poof its all done. Its kind of crazy but yeah big guys in the cnc world for 30 years are actually learning from high school kids and adapting the 3-d printer brains to convert their machines.

Every single person i saw retrofitting the cnc machines said it was much better etc. The fact that windows itself is a terrible way to control timing for steppers etc and the demand for faster more accurate prints as 3-d printing has come up is a real gamechanger. Its not a fatal flaw like you suggest but it is a flaw and people have worked to fix that flaw. Go to any cnc site and you see tons of people converting from pc driven systems to an onboard controller for this exact reason. Its the same reason mach 3 has problems sometimes because its driven by the computers timing and interrupts all of which has been shared with windows and its bloated ever growing operating system requirements.

All the talk about faster bigger computers needed for newer lasers etc. That dont stand for me when a micro controller I can get from radioshack for 30$ and a cheaper version from china for 4$ can run any cnc -3d printing- plasma cutter etc. They are only just running into problems now because they are computing 3 axis and a 4th fro feeding the material. Laser cutters have 2 axis instead of 5 so yeah an arduino microcontroller can run any cnc type laser cutting/engraving job etc. better than a pc can technically. The only limitation there is memory and the newer cnc controllers like smoothieboard tinyg etc. all have faster processors and more memory than an arduino.

Your logic however does work when you consider that windows itself keeps bloating and demanding more resources then yes you would need a faster pc with faster bus on it etc. to keep up with what you were doing years before. Its hardly faster more complex lasers. The fact remains no matter how fast your pc is (i7, 8 cores, 16 gb memory, overclocked, etc.) it still is interrupted by windows and it will always never put out "perfect" stepper commands never. If you built your own operating system on the pc hardware however that only put commands to a stepper driver well that is what you have in a onboard solution.

The other benefit is when your mainboard dies hopefully there is no mainboard in a trotec so that wont happen.

[Bert Kemp]

Scott I think I can do a lot of what you said but not all of it. I can save several jobs on the same material all with different settings and just send the whole thing to the laser and I don't need corel to do that. I just open the file from the laser and hit go. Now if I wanted to make any changes to those files then I'd need corel but it sounds like you do to. I don't have link to tell it to use the change I would have to manually change it in corel then resave the whole thing.

[Scott Shepherd]

That's not the case Joe. People have gone to microcontrollers because they are cheap, not because they are better. What people are doing with microcontrollers and calling "new" was done 50 years ago by people that were cranking out NC machines. You can't compare the actions of a microcontroller driven system to a $250,000 CNC machine. The $250,000 machine is going to be a heck of a lot more accurate and have a lot more features.

I worked for the company that invented the FMS and I've spent my entire adult life running, programming, and buying CNC machines.

You won't walk into a job shop today and find someone replacing their Mori Seiki with a Arduino based machine. It's not going to happen. Will you walk into someone's garage and see one? Sure. Two different markets. The arduino side of them are just reinventing what was already invented decades ago, it's just making them more accessible to people at much lower costs. That doesn't mean they are the same, or function the same.

Don't take my word for it, Universal's been around for decades, their Job Control has been out for 8 years or more and it's on every laser they sell. Last time I talked to them (weeks ago), business was booming. Trotec's been doing it for a while and last time I talked to them, business was booming. Epilog had their version at the show I was at, and they are heading that direction.

If there's no value in it, then why are all three of them, who are all cranking machines out every day, making them? Apparently they aren't hearing complaints from people about it.

[Scott Shepherd]

Bert, it's like the difference between a flip phone with nothing but a phone, and a smart phone. Do both call people? Sure. Do you need the features on a smart phone for your life? Yes? No? Maybe? It's the same thing here. Machines that have a print driver are like a flip phone and Job Control systems are like smart phones. You can do a lot more with them, there's a lot of power, and to some people, that power is important. To others, it's a frustration.

[Jerome Stanek]

I can do that also and change speed and power without the computer connected while a job is running

[Scott Shepherd]

I can do that also and change speed and power without the computer connected while a job is running

Sure, you can change speed and power when it's not plugged into the computer, but you don't have the same features available. If you see no value to the features, then great. We, however, do see a TON of value in the features.

It's your money, I don't care how you spend it, but don't pretend that they are the same, because they aren't.

Show me, on a print driver system, how you can create a perforated line without having to make a perforated line in Corel? Or, better yet, make what I described. A score line with a perforated line inside it. Done with 1 click on our system.

[Lee DeRaud]

I not arguing with any of this Just curious as to why some think its a bad idea. I guess we all can continue corel work while the laser is running. Its just my laser has internal memory and some think this is not good I guess don't know why. But I think its off the OP's original ? of do we need dedicated computers for each laser.

Actually I think we do need a dedicated computer for each laser.
I just don't think putting it inside the laser is the right answer.

[Bill George]

I think it would be nice to have it both ways. I think what Scott is saying is the PC connected does the actual machine control, via a interface built into the machine.

One of my CNC toys in the past was a PlasmaCAM, where the computer ran the machine via a parallel port connection and they had issues with some different computers. The other three machines used a serial port for control and again a special interface board. Given todays computers and the way they are being produced and different operating systems coming in the future, I would almost rather have a stand alone machine where you download and it stays in the memory.

[Bert Kemp]

I wish I could afford such a laser and If I was in business for profit I'm sure I'd check them out and see all the advantages of owning one. But for what I do 95% hobby and play with it and 5% try to pay for materials. This ones ok.

Bert, it's like the difference between a flip phone with nothing but a phone, and a smart phone. Do both call people? Sure. Do you need the features on a smart phone for your life? Yes? No? Maybe? It's the same thing here. Machines that have a print driver are like a flip phone and Job Control systems are like smart phones. You can do a lot more with them, there's a lot of power, and to some people, that power is important. To others, it's a frustration.

[Kev Williams]

Bert, it's not a "bad" thing, there are just "better" ways. What you are talking about is the different in a print driver and a Job Control System. Two totally different things. What you can't do on your print driver system is go back to a job you ran in a rush 4 weeks ago and pull all the settings from that job, or actually run that job again without having to open CorelDraw or hit "print" in any software.

What's the difference between opening the job in Corel and opening it at the laser, or the program that runs the laser? Every job I've ever done that's more complicated than a 1 x 3 name badge, I have saved. And for every job-specific settings for every job, they're saved in the drivers. Both my old ULS and LS900 drivers can save all settings for all jobs. Call up the job, hit print, call up the settings (same name as the job), send to the laser, run it.

And then there's Gravostyle. It may not have a lot of fans, but it'll do some amazing things, very quickly once you figure out how.

Not saying 'job control' isn't nice, I'm sure it is. But for me, I doubt it would do anything but slow me down...

[Scott Shepherd]

I could spend pages and pages cataloging the what Job Control can do that a print driver can't. What's the point? Those who have never run it will pick apart every point, and those who have run it and other's will just agree. In the end, it's not going to change anything. If you don't need the features, great. We do. I'd say we're power users of our systems. If I did the same thing every day, and it was just name tags, same material, same everything, maybe I'd think twice about it, but we use the power of the systems and push them as hard as we can to do things other people aren't doing.

It gives us a competitive advantage over our competition and that translates into business, which is a good thing for us. So, if you're in my area, I highly recommend buying machines without job control

[Ross Moshinsky]

I have both types of machines. Both have benefits. I have positive and negative things to say about both systems. Some may find the differences life changing. Others won't. Some may find the job control method to be detrimental to their business.

In the end, the original post is about running a Univeral Laser of a seperate computer, and I'd strongly recommend it. DO NOT buy a low power consumption PC. They do not work with the ULS. Buy a full powered PC or laptop. I actually think a touch screen laptop would be the best way to go. $500 should get you something that will run all the latest software and last at least 5 years without being dated. If you buy an old, used laptop, you're buying something that will be DATED in only a few years. I don't consider that a good investment for a $200 savings.

[John Sanford]

Yes, that's me.

Big fan of your work here, and a customer.