Saw Selection Advice Needed

[Kyle DuPont]

Hello All,

I am looking to get a new saw to cut tenons and need some advice on how to go about this. My primary concern is cutting tenon shoulders and secondary is ripping the cheeks. I will be primarily working in dry domestic hardwoods. I am going to be building a bench with larger lumber and the legs and stretchers will probably be SYP. The top will be 2 6" x 12" x 9'6" DF edge jointed. This was from a restaurant structural beam. Outside of this bench, my work will be medium sized pieces. I currently have a LN 15 ppi rip carcass saw, and 10 ppi and 8 ppi 26" panel saws. I also have a 10 ppi 24" D-8 that is being reworked.

I am thinking of two different options, in no particular order.

1) Bad Axe 16" tenon filed hybrid. This would work to fill both needs but would cost a lot. Later when I acquire a crosscut carcase saw, Gramercy 12" carcase, I would file the teeth on the Bad Axe to dedicated rip.

2) Gramercy 12" carcase crosscut and file the 10 ppi D-8 rip. This would cost less but I am not sure on using the panel saw for the cheek cuts. The plate on the panel saw is almost perfectly straight. What is there is very minor and in the 1/3 closest to the toe. This would probably be taken care of with a couple of sharpening sessions. I would still use my LN 15 ppi for the smaller rip cuts (2 1/4" under the back).

Is the benefit of the back saw that much greater than using a panel saw? Anything else I should consider that I have not?

Thanks for your help.

[Jim Matthews]

If you can follow a line with a panel saw, it's an all around tool. I have taken to a light swipe of fine oil when the plateis "buried" in the kerf to reduce drag.

[Brian Loran]

The 16" tenon saw is big for the type of work I do. Depending on your work, it may be a one hit wonder for your workbench and then hardly used again. My 2 favorite saws are a 12" Bad Axe and a 14" Gramercy. Those handle almost all my backsaw needs.

There is no problem cutting those workbench tenons with a panel saw or handsaw, or any saw big enough to do the job. Worst case, get it started with a back saw and then switch to a panel saw to finish it off.

[Mike Holbrook]

I like the 14" Gramercy saw as well, very versatile. The Gramercy teeth are rip with just a little modification to help with cross cutting. The teeth are on the small size which helps cross cutting as well. The thin plate with small teeth actually works well for a wide range of work. I often use my 400mm bowsaw (bow saw) for some of this work. As others above mention, it is easy to start the cut with a backsaw and then switch to a bowsaw, panel saw or hand saw. I sometimes use a chisel and marking knife to make the starting groove if the cut is not too long.

As in many of these woodworking challenges everyone seems to have a little different way to accomplish the same work, all of which can work well. I would lean toward a saw that you feel will work with the largest amount of work you plan to do.

[lowell holmes]

I have LN carcass saws, crosscut and rip. They will handle what you want to do. I also have the LN dove tail saw.

The LN rip carcass saw will also crosscut, but the cc saw is preferable for crosscut.

[Kyle DuPont]

Thank you all for the help. I have decided to go with the Gramercy 14" sash. I decided this due to the experiences posted here and the reviews I have found online. One of my desired factors was to have a folded brass back. This narrowed the field a lot but was not mandatory.

I know that this is talked about often and is an afterthought when you have your saw setup. So I again thank you for your replies.

[Warren Mickley]

I think you made a good choice, Kyle. I liked that both you and the responders were thinking long term needs, not just the project at hand.

Here is some historical perspective. Nicholson (1812) mentions two saws for use in making tenons. The tenon saw, 14-19 inch plate, is used generally for cross cutting only as in the shoulders of tenons. The "hand saw", 26 inch plate and no back, is used for both cross cutting and ripping and is what he used for cutting the cheeks. He talks of sawing both cuts right to the line, not leaving wood to fine tune. I generally use a hand saw for large tenons like on a work bench, and a back saw for smaller tenons.

The Seaton chest (1796) has six saws:

1. hand saw 5 teeth per inch, 26 inches
2. panel saw 7 teeth per inch, 26 inches
3. tenon saw 10 teeth/inch 19 inches
4. sash saw 13 teeth/ inch 14 inches
5. carcass saw 14 teeth/inch 11 inches
6. dovetail saw 19 teeth/inch 9 inches

Of these six saws, the tenon saw has a very slight cross cut filing, the others are all rip. So it could be that Seaton was using the tenon saw for the shoulders and one of the larger saws for the cheeks, just like Nicholson.

[Mike Holbrook]

I think you will like the saw Kyle. One suggestion, start it with light pressure and a little tilt. Once it gets moving it melts through wood like a hot butter knife through butter. Enjoy!