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Thread: Recommendation for a newbie?

  1. #16
    I'd have to agree somewhat with Kev, ? for the OP is this a full time production business is speed a real factor here , How many of these maps do you make a day , a week a month. If your doing 10 or 20 a week a decent Rabbit , or Boss might be perfect for you at 6 or 7 k vs 20 or 25 K You could by a large bed Chinese machine from Rabbit USA and put 3 or 4 of those maps in at a time. Rabbit has good USA based support and their one of the better Imports.I really all depends on how much you have to do how fast you have to do it. If your business can support a 30 K machine and thats what you want then by all mean, but if your machine is only making a few hundred a week well hey do the math. a Rabbit RL 6040 would work for you and have it up graded to 60 watts or you could go a littler bigger bed and get 80 watts. would be a little faster. JMHO
    Last edited by Bert Kemp; 05-14-2015 at 11:27 AM.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilbur Harris View Post
    Here's the deal - USA lasers cost much more than a Chinese laser. They're better lasers! On the other hand, if that's all you want to do, a Chinese laser would do it a ton cheaper. Thing is, you'll come up with something else and a Chinese laser might not be the best. Your call indeed!

    The Trotec laser at work just broke and they're talking 5K to get it fixed. BUT, it's been a good one! I paid 7K to get a Chinese laser that I had trouble getting in the house...in fact...I'm on "cold taters" for buying something that large. I've made my wife a few items but she seems unimpressed at the moment. I'm sure getting tired of cooking and eating from this card table in the kitchen. Should have measured closer....
    You know Wilbur some taller kitchen chairs and larger table cloth and you could be eating off the Laser.
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Williams View Post
    Gotta play devil's advocate here...

    I'm not understanding how an 80w $35000 Trotec that *may* engrave wood twice as fast as my 80w $4800 Triumph, is a better bargain?
    Three things, Trotec's don't cost $35,000, I doubt that it was $4,800 to your door, and where's it $5,000 to fix a Trotec (which has a 3 year warranty on it)?

    I still stand by my comment, this is a MUCH better UV print job than a laser job.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  4. #19
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    Makes sense Bill, but I am not sure what the laser settings are to warm the cold taters.
    VLS4.60 30W

  5. #20
    I have all 3 of the different families of lasers,
    Western made
    Chinese made
    Japanese made

    For engraving go Western or Japanese (EXPENSIVE), for cutting go Chinese or Japanese.

    Japanese machine tend to be huge industrials that will do everything but cost more than the average house to buy so for engraving middle of the road prices are good (Trotech I'd say as I don't like Epilog or ULS machines)

    I agree with Scotty, that's not the best type of job for a laser.

    cheers

    Dave
    You did what !

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Shepherd View Post
    Three things, Trotec's don't cost $35,000, I doubt that it was $4,800 to your door, and where's it $5,000 to fix a Trotec (which has a 3 year warranty on it)?

    I still stand by my comment, this is a MUCH better UV print job than a laser job.
    I'd also at least talk/look at screen printing as well. People have been screen printing on wood for a long time.

    As for what laser to pick: Do a test. Send out a piece of material to 4 people. Chinese, Epilog, ULS, and Trotec. See what you get back as far as time to do the job and quality.

    I'd only look at Chinese lasers if I had the floor space and man power to run 2-3 at a time. If you can get 3 Chinese machines into your facility, then you can probably match or do better than the output of the Trotec. Assuming an average cost of $7500 per laser (including everything), you're looking about the same investment too. One thing to think about is the cost per sq foot. Assuming each laser takes up about 20 sq ft, how much will it cost to take up that extra space? You'll have to make the final decision that works best for you. If you are buying a mainstream machine, I would really look at the Trotec because it will benefit you over the Epilog or ULS. I'd also strongly recommend you look at other methods to produce your product as 30-40 minutes per piece is too much time when there are other options that will give you something in less than half.
    Equipment: IS400, IS6000, VLS 6.60, LS100, HP4550, Ricoh GX e3300n, Hotronix STX20
    Software: Adobe Suite & Gravostyle 5
    Business: Trophy, Awards and Engraving

  7. #22
    I bought a Chinese laser from Brightstar Lasers back in 2007 I think it was. I didn't know it at the time but I think I was one of their first customers. They were trying different shipping companies and my laser was lost by a trucking company and nobody could tell me where it was. I was prematurely upset and then the guy that did my install was not so great as well. The owner ended up doing all the installs and customer service himself to make sure his business would succeed. I posted some negative things here that I wish were gone. I had to replace the tube after several years. They sold me a tube and power supply for about $650.00. Other than that the machine has been flawless. I would buy another from him before buying any other brand.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Shepherd View Post
    I still stand by my comment, this is a MUCH better UV print job than a laser job.
    Hey Scott, can I comment on this and ask you to give your input?

    This product is more of an "art" piece. Race fans hang it on their wall with pride. Some of that pride comes from the respect for engineering and technology that goes in to race cars, and that engineering & technology is part of the product as it was made with a Robot.

    Also, the look & feel of a laser product is, in my opinion, far superior to a UV Printed product. This isn't supposed to be a Poster.

    Maybe what you are calling a UV printer is different than the flatbed UV Ink printers I've ran in the past to print signage. Is what you are talking about something different?

    --------

    To answer someone else's question, no, Speed isn't going to be a thing for me. I am not going to be pumping out hundreds of these things per week or anything. Getting a good dark burn to create contrast is what is most important to me.

    --------

    As to everyone else who has replied, thank you so much. You've given me a lot to consider.

  9. #24
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    I don't know anything about lasers (yet) but I think your product is a great one. I can see how it would be very appealing to race fans.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev Williams View Post
    Gotta play devil's advocate here...

    I'm not understanding how an 80w $35000 Trotec that *may* engrave wood twice as fast as my 80w $4800 Triumph, is a better bargain? If you want any depth at all, I seriously doubt the Trotec will be anywhere close to twice as fast. Superficial, yes, but if you want an 1/8" deep cut, you can only put down an 80w beam so fast to get that done. And while the Trotec will likely be faster, I doubt 2x as fast will happen. I've already proven this to myself with my own machines (my Triumph will engrave wood 3/16" deep more than 3x as fast as my 40w Synrad LS900)

    Finally, as mentioned above, the broken Trotec will cost $5 large to fix. I can replace my whole Triumph for that--

    Sorry to sound argumentative, but I've been engraving for 41 years, and have been using lasers for 13 years. As much as I would love a Trotec, I'll never get one because for my needs, it would be a waste of my money. Your needs may vary. But-- the fastest doesn't always win the race...
    Good point Kev, if it takes an 80 watt machine running at x speed to do the job, to double the speed you would need to double the wattage. or am I wrong? Granted on the RF machines you can vary other factors besides wattage and speed but still the wattage would need increased to cope with the speed increase.

    I think where the Trotec would shine is doing lots of raster engraving of smaller items, and it was your only machine.
    Retired Guy- Central Iowa.HVAC/R , Cloudray Galvo Fiber , -Windows 10

  11. #26
    Do you know what type of laser the lady is using and how long it takes her on average to run the job? Knowing what type of machine she is using could help you with your decision.
    I read recipes the same way I read science fiction. I get to the end and I think, "Well, that’s not going to happen."

  12. #27
    Mike, I do not know what she is using, but I can ask.

    I've seen a few people assuming I'm using Raster images. My files are all fully vectorized. (Just in case this helps add to the discussion)

  13. #28
    People are talking about raster engraving. Many of us work with vector images, yet for a project like yours we would raster engrave the text & track while we vector cut the shapes we need.
    I read recipes the same way I read science fiction. I get to the end and I think, "Well, that’s not going to happen."

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Clark View Post
    Hey Scott, can I comment on this and ask you to give your input?

    This product is more of an "art" piece. Race fans hang it on their wall with pride. Some of that pride comes from the respect for engineering and technology that goes in to race cars, and that engineering & technology is part of the product as it was made with a Robot.

    Also, the look & feel of a laser product is, in my opinion, far superior to a UV Printed product. This isn't supposed to be a Poster.

    Maybe what you are calling a UV printer is different than the flatbed UV Ink printers I've ran in the past to print signage. Is what you are talking about something different?

    --------

    To answer someone else's question, no, Speed isn't going to be a thing for me. I am not going to be pumping out hundreds of these things per week or anything. Getting a good dark burn to create contrast is what is most important to me.

    --------

    As to everyone else who has replied, thank you so much. You've given me a lot to consider.
    Modern UV printers are insanely powerful. You can build height and give dimension to your printed product. I have a sample smart phone case that looks like water with water droplets on it and the droplets are raised, so they look like real water droplets. That's a lot more than a "poster".

    To each his own, if you're only doing a small amount of them, then I can't see spending the money on a western laser, unless it's a lower end model from one of them.

    Doesn't make sense to spend $25,000-30,000 on a machine to do $2000 a year worth of work (I have no idea what your real number is, that's just an example).

    I'd still be looking at UV printing on a Roland or Mimaki UV printer. I'd build color and texture with it and it would be beautiful and something people would love to hang on their walls.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Shepherd View Post
    Modern UV printers are insanely powerful. You can build height and give dimension to your printed product. I have a sample smart phone case that looks like water with water droplets on it and the droplets are raised, so they look like real water droplets. That's a lot more than a "poster".

    To each his own, if you're only doing a small amount of them, then I can't see spending the money on a western laser, unless it's a lower end model from one of them.

    Doesn't make sense to spend $25,000-30,000 on a machine to do $2000 a year worth of work (I have no idea what your real number is, that's just an example).

    I'd still be looking at UV printing on a Roland or Mimaki UV printer. I'd build color and texture with it and it would be beautiful and something people would love to hang on their walls.
    It would be more like $5000 per month, but I see your point. I will definitely look in to the UV option. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

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