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Thread: Recommendation for a newbie?

  1. #1

    Recommendation for a newbie?

    Hi there everyone. I am currently outsourcing production of my "Wood Murals" of race tracks that I sell. I am wanting to buy my own laser soon so that I can start producing them in-house. The sizes of the Murals are 17"x11" for the smaller size, and 24"x16" for the larger size. Can anyone recommend a laser that would work for my needs? Obviously I'd like to get a machine that is of good quality, but I don't need anything that is overly expensive.

    The wood I am using is a 1/4" thick UV Coated Birch. The operator who is making them for me currently is then using some sort of black powder which she sprinkles over the wood to make the black contrast super dark.

    I have attached a few pictures of the product for you guys. Thank you so much in advance!

    EDIT: I forgot to mention, we have extensive CNC Router expertise, but very little Laser expertise. Software / File concerns should not play in to your recommendation, as I am confident that this will not be a big hurdle for us.

    11174400_648340811962946_3242052085952501949_o.jpg11168057_648340718629622_3866949459467645591_o.jpg11207330_648340808629613_4309655423714536025_n.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    178
    Hello Clay and Welcome to SMC.

    I have a Trotec Rayjet 300, it has 80 watts and a 17 x 29" table. IMHO I would recommend a Speedy 300 with at least 80 watts of power. The big three USA machine manufacturers all work well, the choice is one to investigate before you make your purchase. I am sure others will make recommendations. I use Corel X7 and I am very happy with it. Several on here use Adobe. If you are not familiar with either of the software's, look for a download trial version before laying out money on the actual program.
    Best of luck with you investment.

    Robert
    Robert Tepper
    Trotec Rayjet 300/80 Watt
    Dahlgren 500 Engraving Machine, CNC Engraving Machine
    Pad printer with 5 3/4 x 5 3/4" print area
    Jackson Vulcanizers, 15 x 24", three total
    Hegner Scroll Saws, 14", three total

  3. #3
    Thanks for your post, Robert. We use Adobe Illustrator.

  4. #4
    I did a little bit of research, by the 3 manufacturers in the USA, do you mean Epilog, Trotec, ad Universal?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    145
    Here's the deal - USA lasers cost much more than a Chinese laser. They're better lasers! On the other hand, if that's all you want to do, a Chinese laser would do it a ton cheaper. Thing is, you'll come up with something else and a Chinese laser might not be the best. Your call indeed!

    The Trotec laser at work just broke and they're talking 5K to get it fixed. BUT, it's been a good one! I paid 7K to get a Chinese laser that I had trouble getting in the house...in fact...I'm on "cold taters" for buying something that large. I've made my wife a few items but she seems unimpressed at the moment. I'm sure getting tired of cooking and eating from this card table in the kitchen. Should have measured closer....
    Hobby Laser - 1800 X 1300 dual tube Shenhui (100 and 80W)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Olalla, WA
    Posts
    1,532
    There is no way I would want to do many of those on a Chinese laser. That's a lot of rastering area to cover. I would want the absolute fastest machine - Trotec.

    If you are just cutting/vectoring a mainstream machine is a waste of money (in my opinion), but if you are doing a lot of engraving, go western.
    Shenhui 1440x850, 130 Watt Reci Z6
    Gerber Sabre 408

  7. #7
    Realy appreciating all the replies. I'm going to go ahead and nip the Chinese thing in the bud right now. I would like to have a USA based machine

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Olalla, WA
    Posts
    1,532
    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Clark View Post
    I'm going to go ahead and nip the Chinese thing in the bud right now. I would like to have a USA based machine
    That's too bad, Trotec is top of the line. They are made in Austria.
    Shenhui 1440x850, 130 Watt Reci Z6
    Gerber Sabre 408

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Harman View Post
    That's too bad, Trotec is top of the line. They are made in Austria.
    You knew what I meant

    *without a major USA based operation with support

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Olalla, WA
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    1,532
    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Clark View Post
    You knew what I meant

    *without a major USA based operation with support
    Ah, so a Rabbit laser is still in the running??? Hey I made a pun!

    Nothing wrong with only looking at USA made machines, there is enough outsourcing as it is...
    Shenhui 1440x850, 130 Watt Reci Z6
    Gerber Sabre 408

  11. #11
    For what it's worth, the Trotec tubes are the latest in technology and made in the USA. http://iradionlaser.com/
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Gravograph IS400
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Dye Sublimation
    CorelDraw X5, X7

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilbur Harris View Post
    Here's the deal - USA lasers cost much more than a Chinese laser. They're better lasers! On the other hand, if that's all you want to do, a Chinese laser would do it a ton cheaper.
    I think your math is incorrect in that analysis. You are totally correct, the Chinese machine costs a lot less that Western lasers. However, the Chinese laser would not do that job a ton cheaper. It would cost you double the time to make them on a Chinese machine with that much engraving. If your time to run doubles, your profit goes in half. So you'd make 1/2 the money you'd be making with a faster machine. Do you do enough to justify that extra expense to get the cycle time down? I have no idea. But the initial cost up front might be cheaper on the Chinese, but the run time is also going to be longer.

    That would also allow for someone with a faster machine to undercut your pricing and shut you down completely if they wanted to.

    For what it's worth, that would be a great job to direct UV print, rather than laser engrave.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    1,843
    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Clark View Post
    ...using some sort of black powder which she sprinkles over the wood to make the black contrast super dark...
    Do they re-laser or bake after the powder?
    Tim
    There are Big Brain people & Small Brain people. I'm one of the Big Brains - with a lot of empty space.- me
    50W Fiber - Raycus/MaxPhotonics - It's a metal eating beast!
    Epilog Fusion M2 50/30 Co2/Fiber - 2015
    Epilog Mini 24 – 35watt - 2006 (Original Tube)
    Ricoh SG3110DN
    - Liberty Laser LLC

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Bateson View Post
    Do they re-laser or bake after the powder?
    I believe she runs it again after the powder

  15. #15
    Gotta play devil's advocate here...

    I'm not understanding how an 80w $35000 Trotec that *may* engrave wood twice as fast as my 80w $4800 Triumph, is a better bargain? If you want any depth at all, I seriously doubt the Trotec will be anywhere close to twice as fast. Superficial, yes, but if you want an 1/8" deep cut, you can only put down an 80w beam so fast to get that done. And while the Trotec will likely be faster, I doubt 2x as fast will happen. I've already proven this to myself with my own machines (my Triumph will engrave wood 3/16" deep more than 3x as fast as my 40w Synrad LS900)

    Another factor- I can run FOUR of those 24x16's at one time in my Triumph, vs ONE in the Trotec. This works very well in my situation because I have to keep as many of my 13 machines busy as possible every day. One machine making money running for an hour gives me time to get another machine making money. This may not work if you have one employee per machine. I don't have that luxury. My BIL runs the C2000 and the little ULS laser. Everything else, I do. For me, more machines makes more sense than less but FASTER machines. If you're a one-man-show and want more productivity and have the space, buy a second smaller Chinese machine to run other jobs while the big one is running. And the two machines together will barely cost 1/3 the price of the Trotec.

    Finally, as mentioned above, the broken Trotec will cost $5 large to fix. I can replace my whole Triumph for that--

    Sorry to sound argumentative, but I've been engraving for 41 years, and have been using lasers for 13 years. As much as I would love a Trotec, I'll never get one because for my needs, it would be a waste of my money. Your needs may vary. But-- the fastest doesn't always win the race...
    ========================================
    ELEVEN - rotary cutter tool machines
    FOUR - CO2 lasers
    THREE- make that FOUR now - fiber lasers
    ONE - vinyl cutter
    CASmate, Corel, Gravostyle


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