Lee Valley's answer to the new LN honing jig

[Howard Skillington]

Having gotten my first look at the new Lie Nielsen honing guide here on the Creek last week, it was interesting to note the almost simultaneous release by Lee Valley of some new accessories for their Mark II honing guide.

Unlike some, who consider the LV to require too much fiddling, I think it’s a fine system. Once you’re used to the routine, it only takes a few seconds to slip on the angle registration jig and assure that both honing angle and skew are dead-on. But, for want of side clamping, blades narrower than about a half inch are pretty iffy - the aluminum plate that clamps over your blade doesn’t provide that much friction to combat slippage. And that backer isn’t designed to accommodate a thick blade like a mortise chisel.

So when I saw LV had developed a new narrow-blade guide that clamps from the side, I thought they must have solved both problems. Nope.

The Narrow-blade Head doesn’t allow for sharpening a square-edged blade over 11/32” thick. And, it costs almost fifty dollars, after you’ve already spent a minimum of $68.50 for the Mark II honing guide.

In my case, I’ve paid their asking price for the Honing Guide, plus the Camber Roller Assembly and the Small Blade Holder, and the system still can’t handle a skew chisel or a narrow blade without more costly accessories.

As for the nice Narex mortise chisels I just bought from LV a couple of weeks ago: their customer service guy suggests that I “may find it easier to take the sharpening stone to the chisel” and sharpen them freehand.

If I were confident about sharpening freehand, I would never have bought into Lee Valley’s system in the first place.

[J. Greg Jones]

The narrow-blade head will work with your Narex mortise chisels, at least it does with mine. Here is a link to a video where I briefly show the jig in use, and I clamp a 1/2" Narex mortise chisel in the jig at the 6:00 minute mark.

[Howard Skillington]

Many thanks, Greg, for your clear and thoughtful video. I was puzzled by LV's disclaimer in their instructions for the Narrow-blade head that it could not be used with square edge chisels over 11/32" thick, because the lateral jaws look like they ought to do the job. You have certainly demonstrated to my satisfaction that they will.

[Gary Herrmann]

Quality costs

[Mike Tekin]

Many thanks, Greg, for your clear and thoughtful video. I was puzzled by LV's disclaimer in their instructions for the Narrow-blade head that it could not be used with square edge chisels over 11/32" thick, because the lateral jaws look like they ought to do the job. You have certainly demonstrated to my satisfaction that they will.

I agree with Gary because my Narex chisels are less than 11/32 thick and will work with this new atrachment - I think you may be thinking that the 11/32 refers to the width but LV is refering thickness as the height of the chisel.

Another point regarding cost is that the LV jig is $68 for the basic setup...there are several indications that the Lie Nielsen jig's basic setup will start at a minimum of $100 And each attachment for skew and mosrtise chisels will cost well over $20...

Quality does cost and at least LV doesnt go around showing off things and still dont have a product on the market over two years later...I am still puzzled by this

[Howard Skillington]

Thanks, Mike, but I know the difference between the width and the thickness of my chisels.

I was basing my concerns upon the printed specifications LV posted on their website.

Perhaps your Narex chisels are less than 11/32" thick. My Narex Mortise chisels are fully 1/2" thick (and, of course, of varying widths) tapering to 3/8" at the beginning of the bevel.
At the line at which they are grasped by the honing guide, they are well over 3/8" thick.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Howard, have you actually tried using your very thick mortising chisel in the Narrow-Blade Honing Guide? Does it not graps firmly enough or what?

[Patrick Harper]

I'm able to hone my Ray Iles mortise chisels using the Kell guide. They're a little awkward, but it works very well.

[Howard Skillington]

Hilton: have you actually read this sequence of posts?

The reason Greg's video is so helpful is that it demonstrates that the Narrow-blade head will do something that LV says it can't be used for.

If I could try out LV tools at my local Ace Hardware store then I would not need to call upon the good folks here at the Creek for information of this sort.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Hilton: have you actually read this sequence of posts?

Nah, why would I do that?

The reason Greg's video is so helpful is that it demonstrates that the Narrow-blade head will do something that LV says it can't be used for.

I suspect that Lee Valley's stated dimensions are there to guarantee a proper and secure grip on the chisel/narrow blade, rather than a definitive cutoff.

If I could try out LV tools at my local Ace Hardware store then I would not need to call upon the good folks here at the Creek for information of this sort.

Sorry, I thought you had already bought the narrow blade carrier and were now complaining as opposed to complaining in advance.

Tongue in cheek of course

[J. Greg Jones]

The minimum/maximum dimensions given by Lee Valley are, I believe, conservative. I wasn't provided in advance what the recommended dimensions were to be, or I might have discussed that in more detail in the video. The other dimension that came up on another forum was the minimum width of 1/8". The jaws will pinch tight on a piece of paper, so I don't know why the limitation of 1/8". Unlike the situation with the Narex mortise chisel height, I did not have a chisel narrower that 1/8" to test in the jig.

Another point that I will mention is that in use, the narrow-blade head feels like it came first, and then later on the 'standard' head was developed to work with the roller assembly. In other words, using the Mk.II with chisels in the narrow-head just feels more natural and less fussy than the honing plane blades with the standard head. The standard head is about as fussy as I am willing to put up with, and had the narrow-blade head added more complications then I probably would not use it. As is, I have found it to work remarkably well.

[Howard Skillington]

Your conclusions make sense to me, Greg. Since the narrow head does a more secure job of holding chisels, including narrow and thick ones, and the original Mk II head is the only LV option for holding wide plane blades, I expect I'll come to regard the new one as the chisel honer and the older one as the plane blade honer.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I'm going to buy it and test it on one of my 1/16th chisels.

[Mike Brady]

at least LV doesnt go around showing off things and still don't have a product on the market over two years later...I am still puzzled by this

The LN version was being used in sharpening demos at Handworks. The plow plane was on display also. When asked about availability the answer was "When they are ready". Meanwhile Lee Valley was booking orders on theirs. Puzzling?....definitely.

[Frank Martin]

The LN version was being used in sharpening demos at Handworks. The plow plane was on display also. When asked about availability the answer was "When they are ready". Meanwhile Lee Valley was booking orders on theirs. Puzzling?....definitely.

For the record I have tools from both, but far more from Lee Valley. I think the delays on LNs side is a great indication of how these two companies are very different. Lee Valley is an innovative company and invests in R&D with ability to churn out new products at a faster rate. LN on the other hand is not an innovation focused company with likely very little investment in R&D resulting in poor track record in ability to come up with new products. While I appreciate the perception of dedication to quality being implied in a statement that says "we will release it when it is ready", I find it pretty lame as an explation for products they have been showing off for years.