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Thread: Premium lathes for spindles and small-medium bowls?

  1. #1
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    Premium lathes for spindles and small-medium bowls?

    I'm glad I have not ordered a lathe yet. I thought about a Oneway 1224 or 1236 for a while. I was nervous about that machine due to concerns about the smallish 1hp motor on both models. I am glad I did not order a Grizzly as my fears about delivery dates have proven valid and when delivery dates slip like that I start wondering what might be behind the smoke. I have also been experiencing allergic reactions with the skin on my hands that have limited my ability to do much of the "hand" tool work I would like to be doing. It may be that a lathe will allow me to stay involved with woodworking while the doctors try to figure out a longer term solution to my skin issues.

    Lately I have been thinking about buying one of the better, premium, North American made lathes. It just seems like there are too many issues that can and often do show up with the less expensive lathes that are partially or entirely manufactured in China. I expect these issues will eventually get worked out but, about the time they do I expect some new feature set will toss things back into uproar. I am less confident of products that are manufactured to compete at very competitive price points. I fear there are just too many chances for some sort of attempt to reduce manufacturing cost to result in more problems than calculated. I think I would rather spend the extra money to be more confident that the product I am buying will be over engineered.

    I am a combo hand tool and machine woodworker, who, until recently, preferred to do as much with hand tools as possible. The dust and set up time for many machine made projects are issues for me. I want to make chair and table legs that will be under 36". I actually think 24-28" between centers would handle my needs. I am interested in turning smaller 12 " & under bowls and plates. I am working on some less conventional ways to make chair seats and larger bowls. I believe I can do more of these jobs with a hammer and large chisels/gouges and save a little stress on my hands vs using an adze, inshave or axe. I seem to run into problems when I rub the skin on my hands too hard the wrong way.

    Robust seems to be the most popular premium lathe on this forum. I have been studying the machines they make but I am not sure what might be the best machine for me. I think the Liberty is a favorite among creekers? The Liberty looks to me to be a little better design for spindles than the Sweet 16, which seems to lean more toward turning bowls? The independence appears to be designed for seated turning. Price information is not easy to find on the Robust web site. If I step up to a larger model Oneway (from the 1224/1236) I am wondering if I might find another viable option? The Oneway 1640 looks like it might get me into a premium lathe for around $1000 less and at least on paper it appears to meet all my requirements. The Oneway 1640 seems to offer most of the options that are features of their larger lathes.

  2. #2
    Mike,

    I own a Robust AB longbed which is an incredible machine. I think the Sweet 16 would fit you perfectly. The quality is great and it can be had with a 2HP or a 1.5 motor. The standard bed version has plenty of length for table or chair legs and After you start turning more you will want the extra swing capacity. It is much easier to turn a 12" bowl on a 16" swing. It will run you about 6k depending on options. I have used the Sweet 16 and it is awesome and compact. I may even end up with one for another teaching lathe in the shop at some point. I would call Brent and talk with him. He is very approachable and is really interested in what is best for you. There is never a hard sell and there really is no need for a hard sell as his products are that good. I own several lathes and I can honestly say that the Robust products are an incredible value for what you get. Over time the cost of the lathe is very small part of the turning experience.

    Alan

  3. #3
    I have not used any of the small premium lathes but can tell you that 1 hp is adequate for a 12" swing machine. I am talking about a real 1hp motor running near its rated speed.
    _______________________________________
    When failure is not an option
    Mediocre is assured.

  4. #4
    Well, I have an American Beauty, and a Liberty. Love them both. I consider the 16 inch lathes to be mid sized. You seldom have a need for a bowl larger than 16 inch diameter. That is huge family size, or for some one who entertains a lot. The biggest difference I can see between the Liberty and the Sweet 16 is the sliding headstock. For me, the sliding headstock is for bowls. You move it down to near the end, and you can stand up straight while turning bowls, and not have to lean over, or extend your arms out for turning the inside or outside of the bowl. The variable speed is wonderful, more so for bowls than for spindles. If you turned only spindles, then just about any 4 speed lathe will work. Turning bowl blanks, which are most of the time out of balance, you need the variable speed. Having 220 volt electricity, and 2 hp is maybe not 'necessary', but it makes things a lot easier. Robust is made in the USA, which is a selling point for me. There should be some in you area to check them out. Find the nearest club, or contact Brent directly at Robust. I have demoed on the small Oneway, and thought it was under powered for a 1 hp motor. Also, it doesn't have a sliding headstock. There is a claim by many who turn on fixed headstock lathes that there is less vibration on cast iron when compared to steel bed lathes. Possibly, but I haven't spent any time on a lathe like that. For sure, they make different sounds. If money is an issue, then the PM 3520 is a very good lathe, the Jet 1642 with either a 1.5 hp motor, or the Nova DVR. I don't care for the Nova as it has a very slow ramp up/down speed control button, but it does have several preset speeds you can select. There are a lot of choices.

    robo hippy

  5. #5
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    If you're looking for a lathe and are even considering one of the premium machines on the market, you really owe it to yourself to spend some time and actually use each of the candidates. Contact the manufacturer and get in touch with actual customers - talk to them first hand. If the manufacturer / distributor isn't willing or able to help in the process, think hard about what kind of service you can expect after you've plunked down your hard earned cash.
    Buying a premium machine means you're buying better components, more thoughtful engineering and better ergonomics that all adds up to a machine that will outperform and outlast the options. Otherwise it isn't worth the premium price.

  6. #6
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    Even for turning 12" and under bowls and platters etc, a larger swing is nice for starting the rough blank if you use green wood. I also find the clearance from center to ways to be a problem on the swing of a bowl gouge when using a 12" lathe, but it can be done. I do suggest giving consideration to a 16" or even the Powermatic 3520B which I have. I do turn some on my little Nova Comet II which is 12", but do notice the clearance to ways stated but it can be done.

  7. #7
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    I believe the Robust Sweet 16, Liberty and Independence are all 16" lathes as is the Oneway 1640? For the purposes of this thread then it seems that all these lathes meet the 16", "mid Size", qualification. I can call Robust and Oneway and see if I can locate something in my area to try out. This does seem like a wise course. I just wonder if carrying this plan out will prove workable, then I do live within Metro Atlanta so I imagine there are lathes around.

    The Oneway 1640 seems the largest capacity and heaviest of these lathes but it also seems to be the least expensive. Are there substantial design features that the Robust lathes offers over the Oneway? The Robust Sweet 16 does seem to have some unique design features, I am just having a hard time figuring out whether or not those features would prove to be benefits in the work I plan to do?

  8. #8
    Mike, you say pricing is hard to find for Robust, but there is a price list link on the home page, down in the lower left corner. Also if you go to any of the lathe pages, there is a tab that says "purchase" that has pricing info. In fact, you can build your lathe there just the way you want and get full pricing info. I've always thought one thing to consider on the Oneway vs Robust question is the warranty, Robust is 7 years for all the mechanical parts including the bearings and Oneway is only two years and specifically excludes the bearings. That said a lot to me. Good luck with your choice.

  9. #9
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    Mike
    i to was having a hard time deciding which lathe to purchase as it is quite an investment. I finally narrowed it down to the sweet 16 or the American beauty. After 2 months of wearing out the browser going to the robust web site and several calls to them I finally chose the AB. Brent and Deb were both very easy to talk to and answered all of my questions and told me that either machine would work for what I was wanting to do. The sliding head stock was the thing that determined my decision. Although the sweet 16 would have done everything I needed. I ordered a 3 hp with tilt away and gas shock.

  10. #10
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    Thanks for the tip on finding the prices on the Robust page Jason. I had not discovered the section of the page that has to be scrolled to. Not a fan of the pagination methods used. I hate getting locked out of a site because I went to a page I need to see, especially a pricing/parts list page.

    Now that I can see the pricing I find it interesting that there is so little price difference between the four different basic body styles Robust makes. I thought the Sweet 16 was a good deal more than the Liberty until I noticed the Sweet 16 base unit is listed with legs/stand and the Liberty is not. There is only $500 difference between a standard size Sweet 16 and a Liberty with legs which is not much over the life of such a product IMHO.

    I am a little confused about motor speeds. The Robust lathes use a single belt while the Oneways use 2 belt systems. I believe both are called variable speed lathes but is a lathe really variable speed if reaching the full speed range requires switching between belts? I also find it interesting that the small Oneway 1224 has the greatest speed variation (0-2,000/0-4,000), while the Robust Liberty and Sweet 16 are 60-2,900 speed ranges. The Oneway 1640 is 14-700/51-2,585, significantly more limited speed wise. I assume there is some reason for the larger machines having slower speed ranges? Do larger machines just have more inertia or something?
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 05-25-2015 at 9:20 AM.

  11. #11
    With larger swing lathes you are turning larger items so you need it to be slow for out of balance and misshaped pieces. Also some of the VFD's (these make the motors variable speed) on the market do not produce as much torque across the RPM range so they use multiple sized pulley's to achieve the desired torque. Brent has found a VFD/motor combination that will deliver the torque without the need for pulley size changes on the Sweet 16 and the Liberty. The Robust AB still has two pulley ranges for extra torque for large heavy items. I generally keep my AB in the high range. 60 to 2900 RPM should be all most people would ever really need.

  12. #12
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    Hi Mike,
    I am interested in why you went with the Robust American Beauty? The Sweet 16 apparently can handle larger pieces, up to 32" vs 25" on the AB. It sounds like the sliding headstock was attractive. I guess the sliding head stock allows one to work on the far end of the frame to turn even larger objects off the end, which you believe would be a more beneficial feature than the Sweet 16 system that moves a part of the frame to the side of the motor? Obviously both systems can work or Robust would not build that ability into the Sweet 16. The frame beside the turning piece, a la the Sweet 16 system, would seem to offer a greater variety of banjo positions relative to the work. I have seen banjo support systems that attach to the end of frames with sliding heads as accessories. Maybe this is what Mike plans to do?

    Maybe the available body and banjo positioning relative to the work is the issue? I'm not sure whether or not these features in regard to body and banjo positioning may be/become actual benefits as a result of: personal preference, depend on personal experiences and habits or may offer actual benefits in terms of ability to reach the work? I have also read that some do not like sliding heads. Apparently, some feel this feature introduces a certain amount of vibration and inaccuracy into the system. I suspect that Robust manufacturers to a high enough tolerance to eliminate most of the "slop" between parts, still time and use would seem to eventually introduce some error? The video showing how the piece in the frame of the Sweet 16 is moved into the optional positions makes it seem easy to do, but I also know that any extra steps can be detrimental to work flow.

    I had no idea why anyone would have the need to turn objects over 16" until I saw the Robust video on the Sweet 16, in which, a 32" table top is turned. Still I'm not sure I would make a 32" circular object that way rather than just cutting it out with one of my powered or hand saws. I still wonder about which methods would be the least work and the safest for a project of that nature.

    Initially the more compact Sweet 16 systems features have a little more attraction for me, even if that flexibility does require a little more set up time.

  13. #13
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    Thanks for helping to clarify my issues understanding the motors and ranges Alan. I think the Leeson motors on the Robust have a good reputation. My Laguna 14" SUV bandsaw has a 3hp Leeson on it, but I have not used it long enough to have an opinion on it. I know very little about the motors Oneway uses other than to see they list the 1224 with a 1hp Marathon motor. The larger Oneway lathes seem to offer at least a 1.5 or 2hp motor but they do not say what kind that I can find.

    I talked to Brent. There is a Liberty in Roswell, very close, and a Sweet 16 South of Atlanta. I believe he contacts the owners to get permission for me to call them so I am trying to narrow down my thoughts a little more before attempting to set up a visit.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 05-25-2015 at 11:52 AM.

  14. #14
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    Mike
    when I first started looking at robust I thought a sweet16 was all I needed and I still believe that today. I went to a fellow woodturners shop who had one it was a nice machine. he said he was very satisfied with it and how it performed.
    we talked for awhile and he showed me how everything worked and I was very impressed with it very top quality on everything. At that time I was ready to buy the sweet 16. However as I was getting ready to go he said that sometimes he wished he had gotten the AB because of the sliding head stock. Well that sent me back to square one unsure of which way to go. At that point I was just starting to build myself a new shop so I didn't order anything just kept looking at the website and reading the coustomer reviews.
    Up until the day I ordered the lathe it was the sweet16 with the tilt away and steady rest. Then I got to thinking that some time down the road I may not like(or be able to)bend over to hollow so the sliding head stock came back into play.
    made my mind up right before I dialed the number to order.
    up until now I've only had trouble with turning over 16" a couple of times so I know 25" will be plenty. The ability to turn things 32 " was attractive to me as I do a lot of segmented work and thought platters that big would be awesome but 25" will have to work
    all in all the sweet16 is what they call it sweet but with this being the last machine I will ever buy I feel that I made the right decision.

  15. #15
    I don't really know about the Oneway belt set up. If they have 2 belts, I would guess that they are standard V belts, but that is a guess. Any one know? The Robust lathes have one of the belts that is 1 inch wide with a bunch of tiny grooves, or v ridges in it. The v gives a lot of extra surface area for good grip. I can get mine to slip, but when roughing, I make my lathe sweat. As far as sliding headstock vs fixed headstock, it comes down to turning style for bowls and some hollow forms. With a fixed headstock, you can turn outboard off the back end of the lathe. It used to be that you had to turn on the left side, but I am pretty sure advancements have been made to cover that. If you turn over the bed, then your turning style will be different than mine. If you watch Stuart Batty and his push cut, he holds his tools to start the cuts at arm's length away from his body, then pulls the tool in closer to his body as the cut progresses. Mike Mahoney's pull cut is another variation where he doesn't have to extend his arms out so far from his body. Turning out the inside of the bowl, they both do it in a similar fashion. The thing is, if you want to keep the tool close to your body, you have to bend over at your waist, and that makes my back sore just thinking about it. When you slide the headstock down to the end, you can move, pivot, and push while keeping your tools in close to your body. I prefer the sliding headstock for that reason. I show more about this in my video clip, Bowl Turning Ergonomics on You Tube.

    For speeds, since bowls are larger diameter than spindles, they turn at much slower rpm than spindles which are smaller diameter. It would be interesting to see the feet per minute rates of a 16 inch bowl, and a 2 inch diameter spindle. I might be able to do the math, but it has been a long long time. I think pen turners use the 4,000 range. For the Liberty, if you are doing table legs, 2800 is fine, though maybe a bit slow if you are a master spindle turner. The speed ranges can be adjusted as well. You would need to talk to Brent about that. My Beauty has 3 speeds. It came with the high end in 3rd gear being about 3,000. First gear was maybe 900, and second gear was 1200 I think. For me, first gear was too slow for about 90% of what I turn. Second gear was better, but still too slow. 3rd gear didn't have the torque for coring and the heavy roughing I do. I also needed speeds of about 20 rpm for sanding out my warped bowls. Some time on the phone with Brent, and now second gear goes to about 2200, which is as high as I need for any bowl. The slow speed runs cooler than when I am turning because there is almost no load on the lathe as I power sand.

    robo hippy

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