Vintage irons - makes and expectations

[Matthew N. Masail]

I'm not sure what to make of the manufacturers. are they all good? anyone to avoid? anyone to looks after?

for example there are irons by:

Isaac Greaves

I sorby

W.K & C Peace

J.Herring & Son

Bedford
and so on.... is there anything to be expected about consistently? anything meaningful to and iron that is pre-war or post-war?


I think it would be useful to share some experiences with different makers.

So far I have 1 iron by I sorby, the plane does not have a tote yet, so I cannot attest to edge retention and how it fails, but it cuts very well with the little testing I've done. the side that sits on the plane bed it "warped' so that it contacts the bend along the leading edge, and only in the middle at the top edge.

[george wilson]

Don't forget Butcher,a well known and respected brand.

The OLD Sorbys are good,not the recent tools.

[Bill White]

Absolutely +++ on the W. Butcher.
I have several Butcher items, and find the steel to be very good.
Bill

[Zach Dillinger]

Butcher chisels and plane irons are absolutely terrible. I'll be happy to take any of those poor, shabby things off your hands if you don't want 'em. I'll give them a proper send off.

[John Vernier]

You will have to bear in mind that 19th-century blades, English and American, were forged by hand - often with power hammers but with the smith's eye determining temperature control during forging, hardening and tempering. In many cases I suspect this approach to making lasted until WWII. Thus, although the standard of quality tended to be high, the variation in hardness from blade to blade will probably tend to swamp any attempt to generalize about a given brand's characteristics over time or a large sample of blades.

I have found old Sheffield blades to be excellent in general (although I have had a dud or two), and on the whole I think they tend to be harder than the blades of some of my American tools, like my Stanley planes from the 1910s-20s. On the other hand the harder edges are easier to chip, and thus require a lot more care in use.

[george wilson]

I was still able to buy apparently new Marples laminated plane blades back in the 70's or possibly 80's.

[Jim Matthews]

I prefer laminated irons that can be honed by hand.

I find that the Swedish Berg stuff is too hard to make
that an easy proposition.

I would keep an eye out for upcoming products from current makers.
I have heard that tapered irons with slots for fixing a cap iron
may soon be available at retail.

FWIW - I've used two lovely smoothers that had circa 1960's Record blade and cap irons
held in with a wedge. They adjusted easily, and held depth under vigorous use.

While the wedge formed by tapered irons offers a real mechanical advantage,
parallel irons will work well, too.

I would hesitate to buy ancient iron without an chance to examine it first.
My experience produced 3 out of 5 with serious twist along their lengths.

That explained how they could be so old, and still nearly full length.
They were unusable.

[george wilson]

I am sure that old irons could have a twist in them,though I have never encountered that problem. And,if I did,I would clamp the iron in a vise near the cutting end,and twist it straight. After all,the bodies are only soft iron,or wrought iron,depending upon the age.

[Derek Cohen]

I have purchased half a dozen NOS J Herring & Sons solid tapered irons on eBay. Only one or two had decent heat treating. The others were too hard. All needed a lot of work to flatten. I am not sure if other makes are like this, or even if others find the same with this maker.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stewie Simpson]

I would hesitate to buy ancient iron without an chance to examine it first.
My experience produced 3 out of 5 with serious twist along their lengths.

That explained how they could be so old, and still nearly full length.
They were unusable.

Hi Jim. That is not the case from my experience with early U.K made irons.

regards Stewie

[Archie England]

@Stewie Experience is a serious teacher !

[Steve Voigt]

You will have to bear in mind that 19th-century blades, English and American, were forged by hand - often with power hammers but with the smith's eye determining temperature control during forging, hardening and tempering. In many cases I suspect this approach to making lasted until WWII. Thus, although the standard of quality tended to be high, the variation in hardness from blade to blade will probably tend to swamp any attempt to generalize about a given brand's characteristics over time or a large sample of blades.

I agree with this. I've rehabbed many of these irons. I've probably done a dozen Butchers, and they ranged from poor to spectacular, though I think only one or two were unusable. Same for all the other makers.

Sometimes these irons require a lot of work. I often end up flattening both sides. If they are twisted, I do exactly what George does. I grab the bottom in a vise, put a pipe clamp on the top, and twist. I haven't found that many that are too hard, but if they are, it's easy to fix--just temper them with your method of choice. I prefer the stove top. I've done half a dozen this way. They are water-hardening steel, so you want to temper them a little hotter than O1, brown or even a hint of purple usually does the trick.

Too soft is a bigger problem, but that can be fixed by rehardenng. One thing George told me, which was great advice, is to normalize before you reharden. Heat to the critical temp (non-magnetic), and let cool in still air to room temperature. Then heat to critical temp again, and quench. I have usually used brine, but oil will work as well.

[Stewie Simpson]

Has the process of making plane irons and chisels blades much different now than what was the case 100 years ago. It could be suggested after viewing the attachment that the process used during that time period of heating, forging, and tempering the steel has fundamentally never changed.

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/...et2012.php?v=v

[george wilson]

Forging and tempering of all tools was completely dependent upon human judgement in the old days. Even the steel available was made by hand,also dependent upon human judgement.

And,that judgement was much affected by how well,or how SOBER the workmen were.Working class people worked and lived in very poor conditions. They ate poor food. They slept in poor beds. They worked very long hours 6 days a week. Disease was common.

It's a wonder that quality was as good as it generally was.

Even in the earlier part of the 20th. C.,workmen were little better than slaves. My old father in law,back in the 60's,told me that the factories paid men at the end of the day just enough money to stop and buy the night's food. Why? Because if they were paid enough that they could save any money,they could manage to go looking for a better job. This way,they were chained to their jobs for as many years as they were able to work. How did they retire? They had to have families large enough that the kids could work and support the elders eventually. That's how it was. People's expectations were vastly lower than ours is today.

Back then,the formation of unions was needed and useful. But that need died out a long time ago.