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Thread: Odd question about time

  1. #1
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    Odd question about time

    I wonder how long each of these will take me to complete. I know that is like asking "How long is a piece of string?"

    This one took 2 hours, from marking to sanding and first finish coat. 7" x 3.5" hollow form. Probably 2/3 of the time was spent on the inside, and with a lack of proper hollowing tools, the walls of the main part of the pitcher are pretty thick. This is the 5th one I have tried, so I am not spending time inventing, just working on improving form and working smoothly and efficiently. This is totally a hobby.

    In my church the pitcher and basin are symbols of the work of a Deacon. I have made dozens of communion sets for other pastors and would love to be able to give away a lot of these too.

    So if it takes 2 hours now, should I keep that as the measure of my expectations, or could it be significantly less time with decent hollowing tools?

    I know. Odd question. Just comment if you have any thoughts. Thanks
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  2. #2
    if you do 500 or 1000 you may improve the time.....that said 2 hours for your 5th is fine.......I have seen david ellsworth do a ne bowl of about 8 inches wide in 15 minutes but that's not hollowing and he has done many k of ne bowls......the more and the sameness of your turnings will increase speed ......you turn as a hobby so your enjoyment is the most important thing to measure

  3. #3
    With sanding and a coat of finish; 2 hours seems pretty good. I am sure that if you make a bunch of the same design, you will get faster and/or better as you go. That shape and size would require a straight tool, a shallow bend goose-neck tool and a goose-neck scraper if I was doing them. Drill a good size hole to depth and I would expect the hollowing to go quickly; sanding and finish would take a while.
    _______________________________________
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  4. #4
    A bowl that would take me an hour some 16 or so years ago, now takes about 5 minutes. So, with repetition, you get faster. For me, if I was doing that form, I would rough out a bunch of them to close to finish thickness, then use an articulated arm hollowing system with a laser for the inside finish cuts. The articulated arm hollowers are lousy for roughing as in just not heavy duty enough, but excellent for finish cuts where being dainty really helps. Having a good laser pointer system keeps you from having to guess. With My McNaughtons, I do have a laser set up on the coring tool handles, and can even use that for roughing. The less turning off the lathe and checking wall thickness you do, the faster you get.

    robo hippy

  5. #5
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    Wow. That would take me 2 hours just to rough the blank, make a tenon and shape the OUTSIDE. Not talking sanding and hollowing the inside. That is fast in my book.
    Just curious, what about the handle? Nice job! I wan't going to add my slowness comment but I am interested in the handle, if any.......

  6. #6
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    One question - dry wood or turning wet to thickness?

    Dry wood is going to hollow slower, but less chance of movement or cracking. Wet cuts easier and faster but can be a problem sanding and finishing unless thin. Might move like crazy depending on wood species.

    With setup time, I'd say Reed was right on - hand rough a bunch with a large forstner to start. Then set up the hollower/laser and finish the insides. Do every thing in stages - round all the pieces and make the tenons, mount and shape outsides and then drill if you can easily move the tailstock out of the way. Then rough hollow then final hollow then finish.

    Divide your time by the number of pieces.

    Sounds too much like production work? Does to me too.

    Two hours for a nice piece like that is a good time, especially since that makes it an evenings relaxed work.
    Retired - when every day is Saturday (unless it's Sunday).

  7. #7
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    Thom, I have used kiln-dried beech each time on this style. I am opting for stability and consistency on this one.
    This is great information everyone. Yes it is very satisfying to do this at the current speed.

    Kyle, I decided rather than do a handle I would use a twine wrap. Looks like this:
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  8. #8
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    Brian, Those are simply beautiful. How are you shaping the spouts? Steam, carving, off center ? Care to share your secrets?

  9. #9
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    That,s very fast and great shapes. I like the wrap handle also.

  10. #10
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    For the spouts I turn as if there was no spout, full circle, with the rim about 2.5" above the narrowest point. Once it is completely sanded and ready for a finish, I take it over to the belt part of the combo sander and sand away what doesn't look like a spout. I use fresh 80 grit to take away material quickly and without burning. A little touch up with 320 on the rim finishes the job.
    Veni Vidi Vendi Vente! I came, I saw, I bought a large coffee!

  11. #11
    Brian,

    As a hobbyist and someone I assume is wishing to grow as a woodturner as most hobbyists are, I recommend turning each one, one at a time start to finish. Not the fastest way, working in a short run production machine shop I might drill 600 holes, then chamfer the mouth of those 600 holes, and then thread them all, possibly followed by deburring each piece. This all goes very fast with jigs and fixtures because we are competing with NC pricing.

    There is little satisfaction or growth involved in doing this kind of work although the stack of finished components at the end of the day is pleasing. When turning out the pitchers and other things you are turning it looks like you are deliberately making each one a little unique. Ideas frequently come while you are doing the grunt work roughing or drilling while doing things one at a time. Doing even a very short run of five it is probably too late to incorporate your idea, you have committed in earlier steps on all of your turnings. In my short run work, if I made a mistake there is a fair chance I made it 600 times! Sometimes it isn't a mistake, just a slight design change. Often a lot of half finished parts get ate because they are now scrap!

    Take your time, enjoy the process on each one. You may find improvements to the pitchers as you go, you may find a better way to handle a tool to get the desired results. If cranking out pitchers is the goal by all means set up for that. Think where you want to position the pieces ready to turn, where you want them after turning, where every tool and the sand paper and sanders are. Cutting wasted motion is huge to increase speed. If you are roughing in seven passes now, can you do it in five? Do you have a comfortable work area and things laid out so you can just twist, bend, and reach grabbing whatever you need without ever moving from your lathe? Raise your containers up to a comfortable height to grab everything. You are only "making money" when the tool is cutting so do everything you can to maximize cutting wood. This is the production world. At most it is pleasant, rarely does it seem to be fun. You are unlikely to make leaps in your turning growth and try it on the next pitcher doing it like this. If you decide a neck is a little high or low, well, you are committed to that shape until the "inbox" is empty.


    I have often machined over a thousand components a day. That isn't where I want to go woodturning. I want to enjoy the process. Two hours is mighty fine time on that pitcher. Your time will naturally come down as you build muscle memory to turn the outside both faster and better, requiring less sanding. How fast do you want to get? I wouldn't sacrifice pleasure for speed.

    Hu

  12. #12
    I am no great authority on turning but it goes like most other things in life for me, that if I want to go faster I must first slow down. The saying that, "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" applies to so well to turning. I like those rare sessions where I look at a piece and have a pretty clear idea what I want to do before I put the tool to the work and more importantly I can see pretty clearly how I will get there. When I am working very deliberately like that, I seem to be moving slowly but surprisingly my progress through the work just moves right along. Then after a while I get to a stopping point, look at the clock, always I am amazed at how quickly the time went by but it is those times that I am not nearly as concerned with how fast I was but rather how enjoyable and cathartic the work was.

    David

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Linnabary View Post
    ... it goes like most other things in life for me, that if I want to go faster I must first slow down...
    Well said! I know that works for piano playing too - the advice from the pros is "to advance quickly, practice slowly."

    In fact, I'm having trouble thinking of any activity where slowing down at first is not good advice. Maybe outrunning an angry bear.

    JKJ

  14. Yeap, if one is going from point A to point B, there are basically two ways to approach the journey: either drive fast even trying to set a record, or take your time and enjoy the drive... Now, if you live in this world and you are, as many are, making a living off woodturning, time considerations are important, because time is money. Guess finding the equilibrium point is the key to enjoy work. Otherwise, heck never mind time just enjoy what you do ´cause this is art, an endless yet imposible search for perfection, and art is food for the soul. What a life challenge ...
    Last edited by nelson lasaosa; 05-30-2015 at 4:11 PM.

  15. #15
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    Brian,
    Unless you're a "production" turner, ie making your living at it, I think the result is more important than the time it takes to get there. Your forms show steady improvement to my eye with the latest far more elegant. You may want to make the walls thinner, but of course we can only see the outside. The lines would be enhanced IMO opinion without the twine "grip" unless there's a particular significance to the that material. Without it, as in the picture in your original post, the line is more graceful and the neck appears narrow enough that anyone could grasp it to pour without difficulty. If it needs to be fancier (and for me it doesn't) you could always spice in a contrasting wood to form the neck (ie where the twine is now) and even use the same contrasting wood for the rim of the bowl. As I said only you can see the inside (and few of us are satisfied - "I'll just make one more pass") but for my tastes you're pretty much there on the outside. Thanks for showing the progression. Cheers, Dave

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