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Thread: Another Cedar Sign

  1. #1
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    Another Cedar Sign

    Stan inspired me! Western Cedar. Did this one a little different: sanded, sealed with several coats of shellac, masked with blue masking tape, cut the pocket outlines with a 60 degree V bit, weeded the inner areas, pocketed, and shellaced again to prevent bleeding. Spray painted the black and hand painted the colors. Finished off with several coats of spar varnish.Sarah's Sign 2.jpg
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  2. #2
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    Nicely done!

  3. #3
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    That's a beautiful piece of work. What do you mean by "weeded the inner areas" ?

    Have you tried OraMASK 813 Stencil film? I bought a roll of it, I haven't used it yet but it's supposed to be a lot better than blue masking tape
    http://www.signwarehouse.com/p-VOR813-2410-STMSKB.html
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  4. Looks real good to me.

  5. #5
    The design, colors, and material choice are sharp. I would recommend using paint mask as it will make life much easier. Personally I use Gerber's mask but I'm probably going to buy Avery next time to test. 10 yards of 15-24" wide stuff is around $20-30 from my supplier.

    Also I think you have to watch your bit choice when pocketing. There is a bit of inconsistency with the stroke of the letters. The O's in particular look much bolder than the rest of the letters. V-carving might be the better choice.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Page View Post
    Have you tried OraMASK 813 Stencil film? I bought a roll of it, I haven't used it yet but it's supposed to be a lot better than blue masking tape
    http://www.signwarehouse.com/p-VOR813-2410-STMSKB.html
    Bruce, I've used that a number of times over the years. That one and their gray one. Both work well. All of them are a bit tricky, as if you let the paint dry too much, it'll bond to the mask and when you remove it, you'll peel some paint off the face as well. You should, if possible, remove the mask when the paint is setting up but not once it's fully set.

    Weeding is a term used in cutting vinyl. You cut the entire mask on a plotter then you "weed" out the parts you won't be using. If you were painting the letters, you'd weed out the letters. If you were painting the background, you'd leave the letters and weed out the background and the center of all the letters like o's, a's, and e's.

    If you youtube weeding vinyl, you'll get a good, clear idea on what it's all about.
    Last edited by Scott Shepherd; 05-30-2015 at 2:56 PM. Reason: fixed the autocorrected autocorrection that was autocorrected incorrectly
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  7. #7
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    Thanks for the info Steve. I'll check out YouTube.
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  8. #8
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    Right on the "weeding", Scott. I've used the technique alot on the laser, but never tried it before on the CNC. Thanks for the suggestions and compliments. I have some liquid mask I've been meaning to try, but will definitely check out the others as well. Just dropped the sign off at the customer's, she was really happy with it!
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  9. #9
    excellent work .i like the colours with cedar
    what sort of total time spent?

  10. #10
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    I apply Oramask 813 directly to the blank with no other masking material and then carve right through it. It doesn't work like cut vinyl signs. Weeding isn't necessary or even possible because the spinning router bit removes the mask as it carves the area you design in. You peel the mask off the material after the paint dries in the unmasked areas. I have used this technique on painted and unpainted PVC sheets, bare and varnished maple, walnut and cherry and painted poplar. I have found that acrylic paint works better than latex. It sticks better and is more resistant to peeling when the mask is removed. The paint needs to be sanded if it isn't smooth enough so the mask will stick well. Masked wood surfaces also need to be sanded very smooth for good adherence. Lacquer and varnished surfaces must be very well cured or the masking adhesive will bond to it so that it never comes off. Speaking of coming off, if you leave 813 on most surfaces for a long time, it will be next to impossible to peel it off.

    There is more to using 813 directly on the substrate than what I have explained. It takes some experimenting to determine what works and what doesn't, both material and techniques.

  11. #11
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    Here are a couple of simple examples of maple and PVC signs that I used 813 on to make painting fast and easy.

    1-D90-04.JPG

    1-Drlynsey.jpg

    Disclaimer: I carved the second sign from a business card according to the customer's request. I'm not overly fond of it.
    Last edited by Art Mann; 05-30-2015 at 10:59 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    I apply Oramask 813 directly to the blank with no other masking material and then carve right through it. It doesn't work like cut vinyl signs. Weeding isn't necessary or even possible because the spinning router bit removes the mask as it carves the area you design in. You peel the mask off the material after the paint dries in the unmasked areas. I have used this technique on painted and unpainted PVC sheets, bare and varnished maple, walnut and cherry and painted poplar. I have found that acrylic paint works better than latex. It sticks better and is more resistant to peeling when the mask is removed. The paint needs to be sanded if it isn't smooth enough so the mask will stick well. Masked wood surfaces also need to be sanded very smooth for good adherence. Lacquer and varnished surfaces must be very well cured or the masking adhesive will bond to it so that it never comes off. Speaking of coming off, if you leave 813 on most surfaces for a long time, it will be next to impossible to peel it off.

    There is more to using 813 directly on the substrate than what I have explained. It takes some experimenting to determine what works and what doesn't, both material and techniques.
    Not to go off subject, but "acrylics" and latex are essentially interchangeable terms. I went through a lot of trouble trying to actually get my head around common paint terms because so many people confuse terms it confused the heck out of me.

    Ignoring automotive/specialty paints (which I know nothing about), you have two different types of paints. Oil based paints and water based paints. For oil based paints, it's pretty simple. They are 99% of the time referred to as enamel paint. They dry harder, smoother, and typically have a glossy finish. Things get more confusing with water based paint or acrylics. Sadly, the term "acrylics" can mean several different types of paints and people are not very clear with what kind of "acrylic" they are referring to. Typically you have acrylics, acrylic latex and you have "acrylic enamel". The big difference between acrylics and acrylic latex paint is how the paint is formulated. Acrylics are typically more basic paints. Acrylic latex paints are typically used on a house wall and can have additives. What you'll find is 100% acrylic paint will be a flatter paint which is more flexible, and in my experience does not lay down smooth and flat like enamels. If you get "acrylic latex" it can often have additives. These additives can cause vinyl not to stick. I use Nova Color paint which is a 100% acrylic latex paint. This paint could easily be referrred to as "acrylics" or "acrylic latex". That is why it's very confusing at times. What I will say about it is paint mask/vinyl sticks VERY well to it. The last type of water based paint is "acrylic enamels". Basically this is an acrylic/water based paint made to dry hard, smooth, and glossy like oil based paint. This is also a good option for signs but it's more expensive and also a bit more of a "new" type of paint from what I can tell. With the push away from oil based paints and the desire to replace them with a water/acrylic based alternative, I expect more and more options to come up in the near future.

    As for the application of paint mask, here's my stance on it with relatively limited experience. Let your finish cure. As Art said, it's very important for it to be cured and fully adhere to the base material. I rushed some MDF signs which I didn't properly prep and rushed the paint. It caused a complete failure. The signs probably would have failed prematurely anyway, but with the mask they failed immediately. First step is always to make sure you rough your surface with 150-220 grit paper first. Then apply your paint and let it dry a minimum of 24 hours. Then sand again, and apply your second coat. Once it dries the recommended time (say 5 hours), then you have the choice to sand and repaint again. After your last coat, let the paint dry a minimum of 24 hours. Really, you want to let it dry longer if possible. Personally, I don't sand at this point and my mask sticks fine. If you're applying a clear coat, you might as well sand with 320+ grit paper. It really depends on what kind of finish you want. Let the vinyl mask stick for a few hours and then do your CNC carving. Sharper the bits the better. After that you want to seal/prime if required. Then apply 1 coat of your base color. Then go ahead and paint with your fill color. So if you're doing a red sign with blue letters, you'd prime, paint red, and then paint blue. My experience is as long as you peel the mask within a few days, you're fine. Leave it on for a week+ and you're increasing your chances of trouble.
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  13. #13
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    Thanks, Stan. Actual time on the machine was negligible. What ate me up was two things: getting clean vectors from the customer supplied logo (I used mostly Corel X5) and the font she picked at to be hand "tweaked" to make it more suitable for CNC. Fonts wouldn't have been such a big deal, but she kept adding words to what she wanted
    Art, the Oramask sounds very interesting. I've got a gallon of Binks Booth Coat (used in spray booths) I keep meaning to try. Anyone used it before?
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