Something I don't understand

[Barry McFadden]

Just a question that I have. Why does anyone buy these lathes (Grizzly and others) that are made in China? It seems that I see post after post of people eagerly awaiting delivery of their lathe and then when they get it I see post after post of all the problems with it. Motor noise,Scratched up, bolts loose,motor hanging off, tool rest height no good, have to sand down the bed, and on and on. Same thing with bandsaws. I was looking for a larger bandsaw and went to Busy Bee Tools to check out an 18" Craftex bandsaw. Looked like a nice saw until I went home and read some reviews on it. Reports of the upper and lower wheels not lined up (had to shim them) and someone had to grind part of his saw to get something to fit properly. If I spend $1700.00 on a piece of machinery I really don't expect to have to re-manufacture it when I get it home to get it to work. I would love to get a bigger lathe and if I do I'll put out the extra money for one built in North America. I would love a Robust American Beauty if I can afford it one day but I would have no problem settling on one from Oneway either. Seems either choice would be far better than these things coming over from China.

[Dok Yager]

Barry: As far as I know be it Grizzly, Powermatic, Jet, or Oliver, Laguna and others they are All made in China these days.

[Roger Chandler]

Yep.......a tricked out Robust American Beauty nudges up against $10k...........not everyone can afford that! I have turned on one that belongs to a friend.........it is a beautiful and sweet machine! I still may get one in the future!

I have also turned on 9 different 3520b units to date and several Jet 1642 evs, and some other lathes as well. Jet, Powermatic, Laguna, Busy Bee, Hare & Forbes Woodmaster [Australia], Baliegh, and others are all made by the manufacturer the Burt Group............for the respective vendors. Some change paint schemes, some have metric dimensions, some only sold here in America, have imperial dimensions only.............but all made in China/Taiwan ROC . Many interchangeable parts on all these units.

So performance is very similar and value is also important........I get both in the G0766....that is the why!

[Dennis Collier]

Have you priced an American made machine with the same specs as the Grizzly? I cant speak for anyone but myself but I have a wife that stays home with our three kids. I have a pretty good job and its still a stretch for me to buy anything, especially a $1700 lathe, let alone one that cost over 8 grand. Not to mention that Id put Grizzly customer service up against any tool company in the world an that goes a long way with me. Yeah, my lathe has a few dings from shipping. Grizzly will make it right. Yeah, my tool rest is too tall. Grizzly will make it right. Beyond that, I love it and I don't understand how owning a machine that cost 4 or 5 times that would make me happier. It would however mean that my son didn't get to play on his travel baseball team or that my daughter didn't get to attend her dance classes, etc, etc, etc. because dad had to have a really expensive machine that does the same thing as one he could have ordered from Grizzly for 20% of the cost. Those are sacrifices Im not willing to make. Maybe when Im retired and my kids are grown an $8000 machine will make since. Right now it dosnt.

[hu lowery]

Just a question that I have. Why does anyone buy these lathes (Grizzly and others) that are made in China? It seems that I see post after post of people eagerly awaiting delivery of their lathe and then when they get it I see post after post of all the problems with it. Motor noise,Scratched up, bolts loose,motor hanging off, tool rest height no good, have to sand down the bed, and on and on. Same thing with bandsaws. I was looking for a larger bandsaw and went to Busy Bee Tools to check out an 18" Craftex bandsaw. Looked like a nice saw until I went home and read some reviews on it. Reports of the upper and lower wheels not lined up (had to shim them) and someone had to grind part of his saw to get something to fit properly. If I spend $1700.00 on a piece of machinery I really don't expect to have to re-manufacture it when I get it home to get it to work. I would love to get a bigger lathe and if I do I'll put out the extra money for one built in North America. I would love a Robust American Beauty if I can afford it one day but I would have no problem settling on one from Oneway either. Seems either choice would be far better than these things coming over from China.

Barry,

I would much prefer not to buy from china. Unfortunately the car in your driveway, the TV you watch, this computer you are sitting in front of, all have components made in china. When I compared a mill I wanted the better quality chinese unit I looked at was four thousand and change. The old school brand name that I wanted to buy was over eighteen thousand. It was made in taiwan, no doubt using chinese components.

The deal for me is simple, as you say "one day" that often never comes, or right now today. I routinely blueprint much of what I buy regardless of where it is made anyway. Tweaking and tuning to make the machine suit me a little better is routine.

I haven't looked where my mostly junk lathe I am using now was made, a Craftsman, but I have fully deburred the bed, the tailstock, the banjo, both morse two tapers, modified the drive, repaired the same drive countless times, replaced the plates under the bed that the locks for the tailstock and banjo use for lock-up, I'm sure a bunch more that doesn't come to mind at the moment. Oh yeah, replaced the screw that let the back cover flip down with Velcro since the cover had to be flipped down multiple times a day.

Many of my other tools and equipment have been modified a little or a lot too, just the way I roll. Best for the average guy or acceptable may not suit me. The 766's would turn wood just fine like they come from the factory for the most part, tweaking them is just in the US hot rodder tradition! Much as I would love the AB, when it is trimmed out to suit me I can buy a half dozen of these lathes with money left over for what the American Beauty cost me. A lot of what I gained would be pride of ownership. May someday, maybe one day . . . . . Right now the American Beauty is a dream, the 766 is reality.

Hu

[Reed Gray]

The sad thing about the expense of this country is that most can't afford anything that is made here, and we did it to ourselves. The sad thing about China is that though they can produce products as fine as any body else in the world, so much of what comes from there is very low quality. Strange that people will pay for it. Wish I had an answer to fix things....

robo hippy

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Beyond that, I love it and I don't understand how owning a machine that cost 4 or 5 times that would make me happier.

Have you turned on a Robust American Beauty? It's REAL nice. I can't afford one either, but they are REAL nice. I'd be MUCH happier if I owned one.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Barry: As far as I know be it Grizzly, Powermatic, Jet, or Oliver, Laguna and others they are All made in China these days.

Dok.....That's not quite true.

There is a difference between Taiwan (ROC) and China (PRC). They are separate countries and separate governments though each claims they are the rightful government of the other country.


Some tools are made in Taiwan......some tools made in China.........some are made in factories with an ISO quality system.

[John Spitters]

You can't blame China or Taiwan for the low quality tools that we are buying here in North America, if any one is to blame for the shortcomings of these products blame it on the importers / distributors, and the buying public, as already mentioned time and again, China etc. can build to excellent quality standards, but they will also build to any standard asked of them to fit within a given price range that we the North American populous will gobble up. As I type this I'm in Beijing having just travelled 1200 kilometers this morning from Xi'an to Beijing on their high speed train system in just over 4 hrs. They are I believe at the top of the game when it comes to their train system, it's quite something to experience. And no I'm not pro China but let's face it, put the blame where it truely belongs.

[Michelle Rich]

Dennis says it all & very well. John Spitters says it well too. We all have choices and we all have priorities..to ask why one would buy a 1700.00 machine over an 8,000.00 machine is like asking me why I don't drive a lamborghinni (how does one spell that??) vs. my F150 4x4 ? for myself it is because i can't afford a sports car, I can't get in & out of one at my advanced age, and I live in an area where a 4x4 is a necessity not a trendy cool thing to own. But like machines, a lot of my USA car was made in other countries and put together here in the US

[charlie knighton]

just seems to me that this grizzly is sort of the first machine since oil/steel/copper etc. price broke.....I keep an inventory with price of tools for the state of Virginia......seems like we are getting back to the 2008 prices.......seems like we should see some of the major established brands machines come down.......I have not noticed that the sale prices are any better than usual......anybody else

[Roger Chandler]

Dok.....That's not quite true.

There is a difference between Taiwan (ROC) and China (PRC). They are separate countries and separate governments though each claims they are the rightful government of the other country.


Some tools are made in Taiwan......some tools made in China.........some are made in factories that are supposed to be made in factories with an ISO quality system.

Ken is right about the Taiwan and China thing...............this Grizzly G0766 lathe is made in an ISO 9001 certified factory, thus the reason I suspect of the refined castings and grinding of the bed ways and has the most important parts, the motor and inverter from Taiwan........the same that is on the Powermatics and Jets from Delta Electronics, only they upgraded the inverter to an "M" series, which is a sensorless vector micro drive especially suited to the 3 phase motor to give it smooth torque and power.

Regarding the 3 phase motor, Grizzly changed from a D/C motor on the 18/47 G0698 like I had, to its current 3 phase on the G0733 18/47 updated version............on this new G0766, they went even further with a 3 hp, 3 phase motor. Here is what Grizzly says about that transition and how it benefits us lathe owners:

We changed from a (brushless) DC motor to a 3-phase AC motor for several reasons. It's quieter, electrically more efficient, and provides smoother power output - especially at slower speeds. The DC motor design can be a bit choppy at slower speeds, and while most users wouldn't notice this, we decided it was worth the upgrade. Also, 3-phase AC motors are the most reliable motor design that there is. So the change improves both the performance and reliability of an already outstanding heavy-duty wood lathe.

[carl mesaros]

Roger I must disagree with your statement regarding the brushless DC motor. My new Laguna 2436 has a 3 hp brushless DC motor that is ultra quiet, cool running and has amazing torque at low rpms. I have found little need to move the drive belt to the low side. I am comparing this lathe to my Jet 1-1/2 hp 1642, which was a great lathe but no comparison to the Laguna.. The cooling fan is far louder than the motor on my lathe. The most annoying feature is the fan never shuts off unless the machine is unplugged.

Ken is right about the Taiwan and China thing...............this Grizzly G0766 lathe is made in an ISO 9001 certified factory, thus the reason I suspect of the refined castings and grinding of the bed ways and has the most important parts, the motor and inverter from Taiwan........the same that is on the Powermatics and Jets from Delta Electronics, only they upgraded the inverter to an "M" series, which is a sensorless vector micro drive especially suited to the 3 phase motor to give it smooth torque and power.

Regarding the 3 phase motor, Grizzly changed from a D/C motor on the 18/47 G0698 like I had, to its current 3 phase on the G0733 18/47 updated version............on this new G0766, they went even further with a 3 hp, 3 phase motor. Here is what Grizzly says about that transition and how it benefits us lathe owners:

We changed from a (brushless) DC motor to a 3-phase AC motor for several reasons. It's quieter, electrically more efficient, and provides smoother power output - especially at slower speeds. The DC motor design can be a bit choppy at slower speeds, and while most users wouldn't notice this, we decided it was worth the upgrade. Also, 3-phase AC motors are the most reliable motor design that there is. So the change improves both the performance and reliability of an already outstanding heavy-duty wood lathe.

[Doug Ladendorf]

Barry, it sounds like you are a good candidate for vintage machinery. New is not the only option, and if you are going to put work into a machine why not one built to last generations. This is value IMHO. The challenge with lathes is that turning preferences have changed a bit from mostly spindle turning to more bowl turning. So most of the older lathes have less swing than popular new lathes. Many are fine as-is, some can be outfitted with riser blocks, and then there are some pretty incredible patternmaker lathes available at the cost of a new lathe. When it's common to find loose bolts in the crate on a new machine there is a high potential for other unseen shortcuts. That is what would concern me most regardless of manufacturer. The comment that China is capable of manufacturing to the highest levels is dead on. The Foxcon plant that makes products for Apple also makes things of far lesser quality for others. It's all about the specifications and requirements.

[David C. Roseman]

After seeing Barry's post this morning, I figured I should pop some popcorn before settling down to read the responses. Then I saw all the utterly well-reasoned, dispassionate replies and knew there would be no such excitement in this thread. At least yet. Good thread!