Best Fix for Bound Hinge Box Lid???

[Al Launier]

Pictured is an end view of how the slanted lid mates with the box. Unfortunately I installed the two butt hinges improperly without allowance for binding & they now cause the lid to bind when approaching the closed position. I understand where rthe center of rotation is, or that a spacer can be added beforehand when installing butt hinges, etc, but I didn't consider this. As shown (without the hinges installed), is the joint interface. When attempting to close the lid, the righ hand bottom corner of the lid binds on the side plate of the box preventing complete closure.

I'm currently in the middle of staining this box, so the hardware has been removed. If it's helpful to reattach the hinges to show how the lid binds up I can do that, but if I don't have to, all the better as I can continue with the staining process.

I'm thinking that a 45° bevel this bottom RH corner, or route a corner radius, or even plane the entire bottom face of the lid to reduce the lid thickness might be possibilities, but I would appreciate your recommendations before I do anything - don't want to screw anything up at this point.

[Jerry Miner]

You certainly could try a small bevel on that corner, but I don't think that will really resolve the issue. Presuming your pivot point is directly above the joint shown, the geometry is such that that corner should not present a problem unless the lid itself is mounted too low.

I suspect that the real issue is the bottom surface of the lid being mounted too close to the box. A slight re-mounting of the hinge, to lift the lid a tiny bit should resolve it. (You may want to soften the top edge to avoid a lip there)

Any particular reason you made the joint line vertical, rather than dividing the angle in two, with equal bevels on both lid and box top?

The good news is that now you know to leave clearance when mounting hinges. We are all always learning, I hope.

[Brian Holcombe]

It's hard to tell from these photos, but it is possible that the depth on the butt hinges is set too low. If they are too far set into the wood then the wood will contact prior to the hinge fully closing.

[Al Launier]

I've included some pictures to better describe the effect the bound hinge(s) are having on closing the lod. The first picture includes the shims (0.035") that I used to space the wood to hopefully head off problems with potentetial moisture expansion problems. I didn't anticipate a binding proble.

What best to do?

Thanks for your suggestions.

[Kent A Bathurst]

ooohhhhh...exterior hinges...........

Well..........rotsa ruck.........

The straightforward answer is to have used interior hinges, with the barrel "splitting" the difference between the to adjacent boards, and a little bit chiseled out as a relief for the barrel to sit in.


Maybe next time.....you can do that this time, but you will have holes where the current hinges were attached...........

I dunno here - maybe just keep planing a relief until the lid drops closed? YOu kinda need a thinner lid..........

[Brian Tymchak]

Maybe it's an illusion of the photograph, but in photo 3 it looks like the lid is thicker than the top. But assuming they are the same thickness...

Trying to mate a beveled edge to a square edge is tough. If the boards are the same thickness, the width of the beveled edge will be longer than the square edge. You will have to plane the lid thinner for these edges to be the same width and the lid to sit flat. You will probably also have to cut a new bevel with more angle once you get the lid sitting flat on the case sides.

If you have enough overhang on the lid and the top, you might be able to recut the bevels splitting the angle on each piece so you do not have to thin the lid.

[Pat Barry]

What I'm seeing in pictures 2 and 3 is that the pivot point seems to need to be moved to the left so that the top can swing down to match the sides. That isn't easy to accomplish so next choice would be to try and plane the tops of the sides a bit (more toward the hinge side) to match the angle that you can get with the top. Last choice is to thin out the top a bit because the thickness of the top is effectively a bit thicker because of the bevel that you made for the top to be hinged.

[Al Launier]

Thank Guys, appreciate your comments.

The "exterior" hinges are somewhat "decorative" & that is why I chose them. They cannot be used as interior hinges as they don't have enough travel for the lid to lift completely to vertical.

One of the "fixes" I was thinking about is to plane the lid to reduce the lid thickness, but am not sure at this time whether to plane the bottom or top surface. Probably the bottom to hide potential snipes.

The mating board is already glued to the box structure, so there is no possiblity of adjustment there. I realize too late that I should have clamped it & fit check the hinges before gluing it in place. So now I have to "recover".

The mating top board is the same thickness as the lid. The angular edge of the lid does in fact cause it to protrude slightly above the mating board despite the 0.035" shim which essentially forces the lid further down the incline.

Brian I think your statement: "Trying to mate a beveled edge to a square edge is tough. If the boards are the same thickness, the width of the beveled edge will be longer than the square edge. You will have to plane the lid thinner for these edges to be the same width and the lid to sit flat. You will probably also have to cut a new bevel with more angle once you get the lid sitting flat on the case sides." I'm hoping that reducing the lid thickness by 1/64"-1/32" will allow the lid to sit flat. Also, I'm going to line the interior of the box with adhesive-back blue velvet and folding it over each of the three edges that the lid will sit on. Hopefully, this will help to conceal any gap in the lid closing properly.

Any other suggestions are welcomed.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Did not mean use same hinges as interior - different critter.

SInce the fixed piece is already fixed, I think you are stuck with planing lid thinner. The dimension can be measured - what is the dimension of the gap at its widest? That right there is your number.

Yeah - if the top surface looks good, do the bottom. Regardless of the issue, no need to screw with something that looks great - go for the face that will [almost] never be seen.

If you have to worry about snipe, then you have some planer setup issues you will want to address at some point. That simply should not happen, and I don't care what make or model [unless it is crapola that should be a boat anchor]..........one of my pet peeves - guys let snipe become an issue, and spend time on work-arounds and post-planing steps to correct it, rather than getting ticked about it and getting it fixed.

Sorry for that last rant bit - never mind..........

EDIT: OH - on the planing - if you run it thru a surface planer, you will have the "nose" at the bottom of the hill touching the sides, but right below the hinges, you will have a gap equal to that you see at the nose currently. For zero gap the full length, you need a "beveled" planing job.

Lesson learned for next time - hinges, binding, interior v exterior, etc.

[Jerry Miner]

I see several possible fixes---some difficult, some ugly:

1. Plane the lid

2. shave the top edge of the box

3. shim the hinge leaf on the box top

4. Tweak the hinges themselves to move the pivot point:

hinge 6-14-15.jpg

[cody michael]

If could remove a small amount of material from the side wallit seems that would allow it to shut, plane the top, or put a spacer under the hinges on the side away from the door, allowing it to have more room

[Al Launier]

My thinking/plan was to surface plane the underside of the lid. In fact, I experienced an ephinay! I built a planer sled a while back that I could set the lid on with a slight angle & then run it through the planer. This would give me a tapered thickness & to control it I could use varying thicknesses of double back tape, or just adjust the levellers as needed... I think?

However! I decided to double check the thicknesses of the lid & fixed board, "knowing" they were the same thickness, because that was what I had intended to do. Lo & behold the lid was 1/32" thicker. I had forgotten to finish plane the lid. Duh! How dumb is that!!!!! Getting older does have its downside(s).

So I planed off 1/32" on my DW735 planer & it's now a good fit. I'm good to go - life is good once again!

Sorry for troubling you guys & thanks again for all you helpful/informative suggestions.

[Pat Barry]

Nice recovery!

[Kent A Bathurst]

I had forgotten to finish plane the lid.

Sorry for troubling you guys........

No trouble. Actually pretty funny. Glad I am not the only guy on that list...........