Other Turning Stuff

[Mike Holbrook]

I have made several posts regarding various types of Lathes. A comment I have often seen suggests that the cost of a lathe is a small part of the cost of "turning". I am curious about the other items I might need in the pursuit of wood turning.

What Do I want to make:
Being a long time poster on these forums I am relatively certain that respondents to such a post will immediately say, well it depends on what type turning you may want to do... The answer to this question often leads us off topic:
Being new to turning but not so new to woodworking I find my answer to this question relates to two time frames, immediate interest and future interests. Rather than bore all respondents with information they may not care to read about I have tried to label personal sections that some may want to skip. I include those sections though because there is a tendency on some posters part to move the discussion off-topic in an attempt to help me with... chair making issues or health issues. I hope the information on why I have my particular interests may keep us more on topics of interest to a greater number of turners and off my less interesting personal issues. On the other hand, most discussion regarding woodworking/turning may have little significance unless it relates to a particular woodworker's more restricted environs, a classic catch 22.

Immediate Work, turning for Windsor chairmaking:
I got interested in turning as an adjunct to my interest in building Windsor chairs. All the chair builders I have taken courses from or studied have some sort of lathe: Peter Galbert, Curtis Buchanan, Drew Langsner. My initial interest was in turning relatively small spindles and making more precise chair tenons. In his new book "Chairmaker's Notebook" Galbert says he uses a 36" (between centers) lathe but mentions that for the work he does a lathe that can handle 24" would be sufficient. He also points out a confusing terminology issue with chairmakers. Galbert and apparently most other chairmakers, including myself, do not make what chairmakers call spindles with a lathe. The long thin "spindles" in Windsor chair backs are typically made with a drawknife and spokeshave. A spindle made "correctly" with a drawknife orients the grain of the wood straight through the entire piece. The grain orientation on these chair spindles is very important because they need to be very thin but also very flexible. Most chairmakers, however, make chair legs and chair rungs with a lathe. These chair parts are frequently made of hard maple making them less sensitive to grain direction, less fun to work with the hand tools... So before other chair makers start telling me I shouldn't make chair spindles with a lathe.....When I talk about making chair "spindles" I am talking about chair legs and rungs. Sure chair legs and rungs can be make with hand tools too. I have several sets in my shop now. However, the design of the traditional Windsor chair calls for a light chair with smaller pieces. Turned maple legs are traditional on these chairs.

Other/future Work & possible interests:
I started my lathe search thinking mostly about turning parts for chair legs. The more posts I read the more interested I became in turning bowls, platters...and the many other objects turners on the Turner Forum post about. I have easy access to lots of green wood on our 12 acres.


Off Topic personal issues:

Work I am trying to avoid due to health issues...at least for a while
I have had some allergic or stress reactions on my hands which have kept me from using the hand tools I love using. My experience with all the substances I touch and the stress my hands are put through make me think my hands might "handle", at least for the near future, turning better than heavy hand tool usage. I am relatively certain that I can reduce stress to my hands by turning some wood rather than doing heavy work with hand tools. Yes, I realize I may still be touching lots of woods...that may be a source of allergic reactions. Thus far though, I believe my issues relate more to heavy physical stress to the skin on my hands. Certainly, after loosing large amounts of the skin on my hands quite a few times over the last two years the skin on my hands is relatively thin and extra sensitive. I no longer have any significant calluses on my hands. Wearing gloves helps and will keep many foreign substances off my hands. Major problems I have had followed specific heavy, prolonged physical stress to the skin on my hands. Examples of hand work activity that have caused me problems are ... I took two chairmaking classes in which there was heavy pressure to get lots of hand tool work done in long days during week long classes. I had problems after both classes. I think another issue presented after a long day of using a chain saw, limbing axe, splitting axe....The original issue I had may relate to over use of specific medications used to combat Issues I and my doctors miss diagnosed. The continuing issues may relate to stressing hands which have never entirely healed.

The real topic...Turning tools Discussion:

Galbert's suggestion for chair leg turning: 3/4" Roughing gouge, 1/8" Diamond parting tool, 3/4" Oval skew, 3/8" Detail gouge. I actually got my chair leg turning experience with Drew Langsner at Country Workshops. Langsner used almost exactly the same tools as Galbert suggests. I am interested in suggestions regarding other turning tools posters find helpful, especially any tools unique to bowls, platters...

Chucks:
I watched a YouTube post Robo Hippy/Reed Gray did on mounting bowl blanks which was helpful but raised more questions regarding which chucks, drive centers, live centers I might or might not need. I believe more complicated/larger chucks are often used for the larger pieces where the smaller live centers are typically used for spindles.

I am assuming that many turners end up buying a larger selection of turning tools, chucks, live centers, tool rests....which wind up costing them more than their lathe? I am trying to get a better idea of specific additional tool, chuck...needs I may need to consider, other than the four basic turning tools and basic "live centers", usually delivered with a new lathe, which I might need/want.

[charlie knighton]

for chair making search Gretch....chair making..... most of the wood is split with the grain and then "roved" not turned , this is done for strength

[Jeffrey J Smith]

I am assuming that many turners end up buying a larger selection of turning tools, chucks, live centers, tool rests....which wind up costing them more than their lathe?

Mike: I'm not sure anyone can predict where you're going to wind up. You mentioned the recommendation of an oval skew - but once you get that and start getting comfortable, you'll probably find that you're looking at traditional skews, different sized skews, radiused skews. Then the yearning to see what difference different steels make. Diamond hones in multiple grits and sizes/shapes to make honing easier...and you've only dealt with one tool - the skew. By the time you're done, you've got a wall full of skews in different sizes, style and types of steel. The same progression gets followed with gouge and scrapers, live centers, drive centers, chucks, jaw sets, grinders and wheels.
They call it the vortex for a very good reason, and struggle is futile. There isn't really away to predict where it all goes. It seems to morph as you grow and change in both how you turn and what you turn. That's what makes it so rewarding.
Starting out, keep with the basics until you've got a good feel for how they work and which ones you feel are indispensable.

[Ryan Mooney]

A lot of bowls were made with just a face plate and a single bowl gouge so you can get by with that.

A chuck is immensely handy though and unless you only do a fairly limited set of bowls its also real nice to have a handful of different jaw sets (of course its even more convenient to have a chuck per jaw set so you're not switching them all the time..).

Realistically for bowls you'd want to add at least two bowl gouges (either 5/8 or 1/2 and 3/8 or so) and a couple of curved scrapers. If you get into hollow forms then katy bar the door on tooling. I've done vessels about 8" deep and about 10" across with a 5/8" bowl gouge and a curved tool rest; that's about where the pucker factor was to much for me on the depth/width ratio with the basic tools. I haven't bought any deeper hollowing tools yet - I just re-factor my projects more to fit my tooling.. but the lure is there. Also once you start going to a higher aspect ratio then some form of steady rest starts to become more than a convenience and heads into required territory. If you're doing a lot of salad/fruit bowls then one of the bowl saver/bowl coring systems starts to make sense from a wood usage/tool cost/time spent perspective.

Then there's finishing the bottom of the bowls. You can do it with a chisel off of the lathe, works fine but isn't that fast and doesn't allow some of the fancier bottoms (alternatively you can do some fancier carved legs but that also adds time). A step up from that is a friction chuck, the simplest is an old mouse pad over your other chuck or a shaped piece of wood stuck in your chuck held in place with the tail stock; a lot of folks do just fine with this as well (and some production turners actually prefer it because its fast). There are also cole jaws, longworth chucks, etc... and vacuum chucks - the price on these keeps sliding up.

Pen making and other similar projects have their own sets of tooling and requirements.

Do you NEED most of this? no not really, but they all make turning faster, easier, more fun, enables other types of projects, etc... There are a number of turners who only use a skew on a homemade pole lathe - or there's one turner who does production bowl turning with homemade hook tools on a homemade pole lathe - and they're all just plumb happy and having a lot of fun to.

Its complicated

[Pat Scott]

I got interested in turning because I wanted to make a Candlestand table (small round top, single turned column, 3 legs). I had no desire to make bowls.
Then I made a bowl and liked it. I made another and another, and a platter, and...well...I have yet to make that Candlestand table!

[Mike Holbrook]

Right, I understand the answer is complicated. On the other side of the coin it is even more complicated when one is not well versed in this particular genre of woodworking gear. I am considering a lathe somewhere between a Oneway 1224/1236 and a Robust Liberty. At the moment the Robust Sweet 16, with a short bed, sounds like it fits the greater set of my needs/wants the best. Still trying to figure out whether or not I should spend that amount of money. I am taking another month or two to get past some other financial obligations and physical issues before determining what to buy, both in terms of a lathe and initial turning tools, chucks...

I am also interested in the statement people keep repeating about the cost of the lathe being a small part of the cost. I understand this statement in regard to woodworking on a larger scale. I suspect the items I have collected over the last 65 years will in some ways impact my financial commitment. I bought a bench grinder, two good tool rests, two CBN wheels in recent months. I have a good collection of water, diamond and ceramic stones in a myriad of sizes and shapes..... I sharpen everything from scythes to mower blades and most of what lies between. I have a good collection of hand tools and power tools....I have a 2 1/2 room shop with lots of tools, running water...

From what I gather a Oneway 1224 will handle my "spindle" turning needs. I am interested in turning larger objects, like bowls, particularly if I find I have physical restrictions in my ability to use heavy, larger hand tools. The Robust Sweet 16, on the other end of my options, appears to be able to handle quite large objects and small to medium size spindles in a compact very versatile unit. The various scrapers, roughing and detail gouges...are relatively straight forward. Certainly I understand the concept of a woodworker never having enough chisels, planes, clamps, workbenches/work support...

For me the issue isn't as much about money as it is about space and numbers of tools I may need to look after/learn. Schwarz"s "The Anarchist's Tool Chest" comes from the place I am talking about here. If I had all the tools in the world where would I put them and would I ever learn to use them all? I understand that for some posters here woodturning is "all/the focus of" your woodworking shop. I do construction work, electrical, plumbing, cabinet making, landscaping, arborist activities, furniture....I have a large shop but there are still limits. I should also add that I may have lost a step speed wise along the way.

Chucks and spindles may be the biggest question I have at this time. I know there is quite an assortment of devices for holding work on a lathe. Banjos and tool rests sre another foggy spot for me educationally. I know some of these devices can be pricey. I know some of these devices have an assortment of parts/clamping systems that can be swapped out for others. I think what I need for holding spindles in place is relatively straight forward, but I have very little idea about the larger more complicated chucks and tool rests often used to hold larger objects in place. I gather from Robo Hippy's videos that here again different people prefer different systems. I understand most lathes come with face plates that can be screwed to the work and attached to the lathe. It sounds, however, like this might be a tedious and somewhat invasive method if used regularly. I suspect that I will be much happier with some sort of chuck that clamps around a part of the piece being turned. I am also concerned about the safety factor of these various work holding/working devices. I have little idea whether or not I might want/need one or 20 of these devices. Nor do I know what options/accessories might help. I am confident someone will at least say to themselves the topic is like what chisels should I start my collection with. There are many old posts on various SMC forums regarding chisel, plane, spokeshave, axe, bandsaw, Festool...research I and others did when we invested in those tools. Arn't these topics one of the main focuses of a forum like this?

I want one good compact lathe that can do as many jobs as possible. My other turning purchases will reflect the same economy of function vs space vs maintenance time...Approaching personalities from the master of a single subject vs a jack of all trades, I lean heavily toward the jack of all trades. I will research this topic fairly heavily for another month or two and then make purchases that I think will give me the greatest number of options/solutions to the work I do or may want to do. Sure, it is possible I may buy another lathe or more tools down the road. However, in my case, my wide range of interests at least spreads the compulsion. My shop isn't designed to do woodturning or furniture making or cabinet making...it is designed to optimize my ability to handle as many tasks as possible, as efficiently as possible.

[Dave Cullen]

Mike -

It really isn't complicated. The big investment is the lathe. What tools and accessories you need depends on where your turning journey takes you. Start with the basic 4 or 5 tools and take it from there. The basic items you mentioned could get you by for a long time. Some spindle turners never buy a chuck or a bowl gouge. And neither of those needs to cost a lot of money.

It's no different than someone asking here, "What hand planes do I need?". You only need what the task at hand requires, and then only if you can't do with what you have. Buy them as you need them.

You have grinding and sharpening stuff, that's good. The basic turning tools, centers, and even a 4 jaw chuck won't cost anywhere near the price of a nice lathe and could serve you well for years to come.

Another hobby of mine is car audio. The sound system in my car is worth more than the car itself. But that was a choice I made to pursue a hobby - the factory system sounded just fine to everyone but me... I'm just sayin', you don't need Oneway chucks and Sorby chisels to pursue wood turning.

[Ryan Mooney]

First up I'm a small time amateur so take this all as worth around what you paid for it.

Short answers:

I've fit pretty much all of my turning tools minus the chisels into three drawers that are 12" deep by 24" wide plus a small box (say 12x24 and 12" deep) of pen, bottle stopper and misc parts/patterns, etc.. I don't have a lot of the more (of what I'll call) advanced tools like vacuum chucks, deep boring/hollowing tools, and steady rests. Those take a lot more room (and are generally fairly pricy). So I'll be focusing more on what a medium level startup set looks like. The startup set level has kept me pretty amused as a hobbiest for ~4 years with no sign of slowing down. I have been contemplating some more hollowing equipment but haven't pulled the trigger yet because of space, cost, and a lack of time to really justify it.

I would be somewhat concerned about the wood impacting your hands while turning. It can come off of the lathe hot and fast so if you're having skin issues it may still be a problem. I have seen some folks who have shields on thier chisels to deflect the wood but have no idea how well they work. A tight fitting glove on the forward hand may also be an option, with the usual "spinning objects and gloves are a dubious mix" caveat.

I would encourage you to try to find someone who has a lathe you can turn on for a few hours to make sure it works for you before investing $x,xxx in it. A friend of mine has some hand problems and thought she would like the lathe (knitting actually helps her for some reason), but the vibration and impact was to much for her and she couldn't do it comfortably. Having said that, the vibration and impact is MUCH worse when you are starting out and haven't fully figured out the tool approach, as you get that down it smooths out a lot - you're probably ahead of the game a bit there with your other wwing experience.

The sweet 16 is truly a drool worthy lathe. It actually comes in three lengths:

• Short: 16“, 30“ with gap as extension
• Standard: 26“, 40“ with gap as extension
• Long: 38“, 52“ with gap as extension

I can't tell you what lathe to buy, but it seems like you're narrowing in on something with enough capacity and flexibility to do whatever you might want to.


The banjo that comes with your lathe is likely dandy for any of the class of lathes you are talking about, I wouldn't worry about worrying about replacing or amending it (unless you do really long spindles then you might want an extra one to support the far end of the rest, but it doesn't sound like you're planning on doing anything that large and it would only be useful if you were doing them all the time anyway).

You will eventually want some more tool rests. A short list is:

• A shorter tool rest for small work between centers. You might not plan on doing pens, etc.. but its nice to be able to make little tool handles, etc.. Something in the 4" range seems handy to me.
• An inside and outside curved rest or an S shaped rest. This is for allowing to easily have the rest close to the inside and outside of bowls. Some folks end up with several of these for different curves. I have one than can be taken off of the post and flipped over to use either inside or outside, but honestly I also just use the straight rest a lot instead. I wouldn't worry about buying these up front until you've done a few shallower bowls and seen where you are.
• You may eventually want a longer tool rest. This is just a convenience feature for longer spindles. I wouldn't buy it up front unless you eventually get annoyed at moving the rest when doing long spindles.

Somewhere between $30 and $100 each is a rough baseline, the robust ones are quite nice and in the $60-100 range.

For chucks I'd start with one and plan on eventually getting two or three and a handful of jaws. I've been quite happy with the SuperNova2 chucks at around $180 per with one jaw (jaw sets run in the $30-50 range). Other folks use the oneway or vicmark chucks as well (there are also the PSI and grizzly chucks which seem to be ok, but since you're buying a premium lathe it seems silly to scrim $50 on the chuck). I just picked a vendor here and mostly stuck with them as the jaws are be compatible within the vendor. You size the jaws to the work you're doing, the stock jaws are good for most small-medium sized bowls (and for really large stuff either a faceplate is desired or upgrade to one of the heavier duty chucks.

You may want a couple of alternative drive centers (https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/t/190/Drive-Centers). Something like a crown center or the steb center is a bit more forgiving than the pronged drive center and make it easier to grab some types of spindles. A smaller drive center like the precision mini has proven useful for small spindles. Neither of these are required up front.

There are a number of alternative live or revolving centers as well (https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/t...olving-Centers), luckily the one that comes with all of the lathes you're looking at are quite nice so you're also ahead there. There are various reasons to want others (size, shape, less penetration into the work, etc..) but most of that can be deferred indefinitely. I would however plan on adding a dedicated drill chuck for the tailstock side, figure about $50-100; it makes center boring a lot of work (and starting the center hole on bowls) a whole lot easier.

You'll likely be $500+ in on chisels before to long, thats about 6-9 premium (say thompson) or a bit over a dozen bargain (like PSI).

I'm probably missing a few things, but they are mostly project specific or can be worked around for most general purpose turning.

[Joe Bradshaw]

Mike, you should find your local woodturning club and attend some meetings. Find you a mentor. Woodturners are the friendliest bunch of woodworkers you will ever meet. We would love to help you spend your money. Turn on as many models of lathes that you can find. John C Campbell folk school offers a beginner woodturning course. Good luck with your journey.
Joe