G0766 - Sounds

[Tommy Brennan]

I have owned the 766 now for a few months and have had every single issue listed with it on all the topics in this form about it and Moore. About a month ago I sent the headstock into Grizzly Tools repair multiple issues including the Mistry spacer set screws kept coming loose possible bad bearing run out terrible run out rethreading of the spindle on both sides with and will is and the headstock and so they replace the spindle with a new design which according to them was going to have threads all the way back to the shoulder. And fatter threads I just received yesterday after a month and some of the smaller issues like the Mistry spacer in the terrible sound from that in the set screws were correct it as well as the run out and they said they replaced both bearings in the spindle with the new updated spindle rod. Now the threads on the new rod are a little bit wider little bit shorter and it's angled in the front machined much better than the first one however the still only 6 1/2 threads and so my one-way Chuck my grizzly Chuck my barracuda to Chuck and my nova G2 Chuck will not screw all the way onto the shoulder and never have the only thing that does is the faceplate that came with the lace currently The runout has been fixed but as soon as I put a piece of wood on the leas I made a couple of passes and is this horrible clicking sound so I took the belt off to verify if it was coming from the top of the headstock on the bottom and of course while and turning the spindle the clicking is coming from inside the casting so obviously it's both or one of two of the bearings which were just replaced I haven't even been able to really use this tool in my opinion if you spend 500-1700 or 8000 a tool should work. I am so frustrated with this lays someone please help because obviously grizzly can't ! Mine was manufactured April 2015, One question I'd really like answered is when you replace the bearings do you have to remove the snap ring first on the inside or does the Bering just pull straight out ?

[Hayes Rutherford]

Tommy, I just looked at the parts breakdown on the 0766. The bearings have to come off the hand wheel end so although it would be possible to get the the outermost bearing off without pulling the snap ring, there is no reason not to just pull the snap rings then use your method of choice. The outboard bearing on some lathes is a loose fit and slides off the shaft. If not, a slotted plate or bearing splitter and a press are used. Bearing splitter for the bearing against the indexing hub. I have also used a pinpoint flame on the inner race and tap the end of the shaft with a wood mallet. Assume any removed bearings will be toast. Replacement bearings are pressed back on to their exact locations with the appropriate size tube that will fit over the shaft and contact the inner race only(not the seals or outer race.)

I was surprised to see there are only two light duty bearings in that headstock.

[Roger Chandler]

Tommy, I just looked at the parts breakdown on the 0766. The bearings have to come off the hand wheel end so although it would be possible to get the the outermost bearing off without pulling the snap ring, there is no reason not to just pull the snap rings then use your method of choice. The outboard bearing on some lathes is a loose fit and slides off the shaft. If not, a slotted plate or bearing splitter and a press are used. Bearing splitter for the bearing against the indexing hub. I have also used a pinpoint flame on the inner race and tap the end of the shaft with a wood mallet. Assume any removed bearings will be toast. Replacement bearings are pressed back on to their exact locations with the appropriate size tube that will fit over the shaft and contact the inner race only(not the seals or outer race.)

I was surprised to see there are only two light duty bearings in that headstock.

Hayes, the two spindle bearings are 6206zz double sealed bearings with a dynamic load rating of 19500 lbs. each. Static load rating of 13500 according to the information I found on the VBX bearings site. Not exactly wimpy bearings!

I think one of the phenomenon's we see on forums is that people post things they do not know about, or have minimal knowledge about, and at times they erroneously believe something is amiss.

You are an experienced turner, and that is not referring to you, but I cite the noise [some refer to it as chirp or whine] from the inverter. My particular G0766 unit has only gotten smoother and quieter as I have used it......some seemed a bit panicked when they first uncrated their lathes.....I think there is a normal break-in with all machines, and the inverter has to have time to adjust to the feedback it gets from the motor under usage. The first time or two the lathe is turned on will not likely yield its optimal performance in my experience. The same was true for my former G0698 lathe. There is excellent information earlier in this thread from David Roseman about changing parameters in the VFD for those whom this "noise" is bothersome.

Rough machining on the spindle that a few had is problematic, and likely was a QC issue at the factory. One thing that the customer servicing model that Grizzly uses, is that the end user is usually not technically qualified and trained to make some assessments in equipment operating parameters. I use myself as an example of this.....I am a pretty fair back yard mechanic.....I have rebuilt 3 engines and done many repairs from water pumps, starters, brakes, exhaust, tune-ups, timing chains, radiator replacement, etc, but some of the computer controlled stuff now requires programmers, software etc, so I must rely on trained technicians.

I have wired house circuits, done work inside panel boxes, wired my shop.....all up to code, but I am not a certified electrician. If I do have questions, I have a friend who is a certified Master Elecrician. Some technical aspects of electronic equipment, I am better off leaving to the experts.

I am just using your post as a means to comment in a general sense, and not taking issue with you or anyone else, so I hope you don't mind. I am just stating an observation I have seen from time to time, as discussions ensue around things related to lathes, not just the 0766. I had previously read comments about bearings, and had on a previous occasion done some research on this......I personally think the bearings in the 0766 are plenty strong for its intended use. It also has two other bearing sizes on the motor shaft, one if I recall is a 6205zz.

I have had some large pieces on my G0766,and the lathe has handled them well. It seems Grizzly is doing its best to resolve any issues for its customers......that is good. My personal feeling is the factory likely rushed to get the first orders out the door, and QC inspections were not as good as should have been. Hopefully, that is much better now! I want to see every owner of this lathe happy with its performance......it has great potential!

[Roger Chandler]

I have owned the 766 now for a few months and have had every single issue listed with it on all the topics in this form about it and Moore. About a month ago I sent the headstock into Grizzly Tools repair multiple issues including the Mistry spacer set screws kept coming loose possible bad bearing run out terrible run out rethreading of the spindle on both sides with and will is and the headstock and so they replace the spindle with a new design which according to them was going to have threads all the way back to the shoulder. And fatter threads I just received yesterday after a month and some of the smaller issues like the Mistry spacer in the terrible sound from that in the set screws were correct it as well as the run out and they said they replaced both bearings in the spindle with the new updated spindle rod. Now the threads on the new rod are a little bit wider little bit shorter and it's angled in the front machined much better than the first one however the still only 6 1/2 threads and so my one-way Chuck my grizzly Chuck my barracuda to Chuck and my nova G2 Chuck will not screw all the way onto the shoulder and never have the only thing that does is the faceplate that came with the lace currently The runout has been fixed but as soon as I put a piece of wood on the leas I made a couple of passes and is this horrible clicking sound so I took the belt off to verify if it was coming from the top of the headstock on the bottom and of course while and turning the spindle the clicking is coming from inside the casting so obviously it's both or one of two of the bearings which were just replaced I haven't even been able to really use this tool in my opinion if you spend 500-1700 or 8000 a tool should work. I am so frustrated with this lays someone please help because obviously grizzly can't ! Mine was manufactured April 2015, One question I'd really like answered is when you replace the bearings do you have to remove the snap ring first on the inside or does the Bering just pull straight out ?

Tommy, did you file down the boss on your new spindle, or did they replace the original design with a spindle without a boss on it? I have heard nothing of a spindle re-design for the 0766. Keep us informed on this, if you will.....seems to me, that the logical step would be to get a replacement from the factory, but that may take some weeks to get it over here from the factory, so I wonder if tech support is trying something else as a substitute, in order to speed things up to try and make you happy? If that is the case, [which I have no way of knowing!] if it were me, I would want an original replacement, not a substitute that they think will be okay?!

[Doug McKnight]

Are the bearings shielded or sealed? I thought the "zz" designation meant shielded, but I could be wrong. I expect shielded is probably ok, but if there's casting sand knocking around then maybe it would be better to have sealed.

Doug

[Brice Rogers]

Are the bearings shielded or sealed? I thought the "zz" designation meant shielded, but I could be wrong. I expect shielded is probably ok, but if there's casting sand knocking around then maybe it would be better to have sealed.

Doug

Doug, you are correct, the bearings are shielded and not sealed. I wouldn't worry much about the casting sand but suspect that if there is an issue that it would be related to sawdust getting in over a period of time.

When I replace my bearings, I'm going to replace them with 6206-RS. RS stands for rubber seal.

[Brice Rogers]

Tommy et al,
I received a replacement spindle on Monday after waiting since around Oct 1. So, I am presuming that they sent me their current design rather than something that was manufactured last summer - - but that is a guess on my part. It looks basically the same as the original in most respects. I did not see any change in regards to a "new design with threads all the way back to the shoulder". You mentioned that "the threads on the new rod are a little bit wider little bit shorter". I mic'd the new threads and the major diameter are still around 1.229 (a bit undersized).
With respect to the spindle not screwing on, I suspect that Roger was correct in his question about whether you have filed down the shoulder (which is 1.260" or about 0.010 oversized). On my new spindle the grizzly faceplate won't thread all the way on, but that is due to the last thread being damaged during the machining process. When they turned the slot for the grub screw they messed up the last thread.IMG_0016 w. text (1024x768).jpg

[Roger Chandler]

On the VBX Bearings website it is noted that double shielded bearings are sealed to keep contaminants out, and they are lubricated permanently. It uses the same zz rated as the original 6202zz bearings on my former G0698 for over 5 years, and our club now has that lathe with the same original bearings........with heavy usage, there has never been a problem with contamination, and believe me, that lathe has seen some serious dust!

The bearings on the 0766 are a lot bigger. I think some bearings have rubber seals and some are metal. I believe the zz are metal, but still keep out contaminants like dust.

[Hayes Rutherford]

Roger, first off, your bearing dynamic load is probably in Newtons, not lbs. So divide by 4.45 and get 4,382 lbs. While this still seems like a lot of weight, you know the forces an out of balance blank can exert.

In contrast, the 3520b has two 6207 bearings on the inboard side, the shaft is 35mm as compared to the 30mm of the grizzly. So by your reasoning could handle over twice the dynamic load of the Grizzly. This is the reason I thought the bearing arrangement looked light duty. Both of these lathes have a 6206 series on the outboard side.

Finally, industry standards designate 6000 series as extra light, 6200 series as light duty, and 6300 series as medium duty.

[David C. Roseman]

I have owned the 766 now for a few months and have had every single issue listed with it on all the topics in this form about it and Moore. About a month ago I sent the headstock into Grizzly Tools repair multiple issues including the Mistry spacer set screws kept coming loose possible bad bearing run out terrible run out rethreading of the spindle on both sides with and will is and the headstock and so they replace the spindle with a new design which according to them was going to have threads all the way back to the shoulder. And fatter threads I just received yesterday after a month and some of the smaller issues like the Mistry spacer in the terrible sound from that in the set screws were correct it as well as the run out and they said they replaced both bearings in the spindle with the new updated spindle rod. Now the threads on the new rod are a little bit wider little bit shorter and it's angled in the front machined much better than the first one however the still only 6 1/2 threads and so my one-way Chuck my grizzly Chuck my barracuda to Chuck and my nova G2 Chuck will not screw all the way onto the shoulder and never have the only thing that does is the faceplate that came with the lace currently The runout has been fixed but as soon as I put a piece of wood on the leas I made a couple of passes and is this horrible clicking sound so I took the belt off to verify if it was coming from the top of the headstock on the bottom and of course while and turning the spindle the clicking is coming from inside the casting so obviously it's both or one of two of the bearings which were just replaced I haven't even been able to really use this tool in my opinion if you spend 500-1700 or 8000 a tool should work. I am so frustrated with this lays someone please help because obviously grizzly can't ! Mine was manufactured April 2015, One question I'd really like answered is when you replace the bearings do you have to remove the snap ring first on the inside or does the Bering just pull straight out ?

Tommy, welcome to the Sawmill Creek forum. I know there are quite a few people on here with the G0766 that are willing to try to help you. Are you able to post two or three photos of your new spindle (inboard end protruding over the bed)? That may help us better understand what you are saying about it. I'm asking because some of what you have written is very puzzling. I spoke to Grizzly Tech Support a few minutes ago out of curiosity, and they are unaware of a spindle redesign, much less one that would be threaded all the way to the spindle face. Threading all the way would leave no unthreaded portion for set screws (grub screws) in a faceplate or chuck to seat against! It would also eliminate the spindle boss (the shoulder formed at the spindle face), whose purpose is to help register faceplates and chucks as they tighten against the spindle face. The spindle boss on the G0766 (as well as the G0733) is machined to metric specifications and is a few thousandths of an inch too large to allow some aftermarket chuck inserts (e.g., Oneways, Novas) to tighten fully against the face. So, as Roger referenced above, you may only need to take a mill file and carefully hold it against the boss to reduce the diameter a few thousandths. There are some other posts on this on SMC. Check frequently as you go. It takes maybe 10 to 15 minutes. Perhaps what you heard from Tech Service was that Grizzly will be reducing the size of the boss to allow most chucks to "thread all the way up." I don't know if that's so, but it would be a good thing. That's very different than redesigning the spindle to "have threads all the way back to the shoulder").

In any event, if you can post some photos, that will help us on this issue.

As for the horrible clicking sound you're reporting in your new headstock, I'm really wondering if the replacement headstock Grizzly sent you still has that same "mystery spacer" that you read about in an earlier thread. That spacer is not shown on any parts list or diagram, and evidently was used at the factory to register the positioning of the spindle pulley. If it is not sandwiched tightly, it can cause an awful racket that mimics a bad bearing. The easy solution is simply to remove it altogether, as I and others have, as it has no functional purpose in the assembled lathe.

If Grizzly indeed put new bearings in your replacement headstock, I think it is unlikely in the extreme that the noise you are now hearing is a bearing. Also, check the positioning of the bracket that holds the electronic sensor that reads the revolutions of the rare-earth button magnets in the spindle pulley and sends the info to the digital speed display. I don't think that's the problem, but if the bracket or sending unit contacts the pulley it can certainly cause a click.

If you would like to talk about any of this in real time, send me a PM with your phone number or email and I will be happy to contact you offline to discuss. Also, your posting info doesn't say where you are located. There may be another G0766 owner in your area with more experience who could actually have a look at your lathe with you. Grizzly has sold hundreds of these lathes. In just our local club, nine people have bought them so far. Worst case, you are still within warranty and I'm sure Grizzly would even replace the entire lathe at this point, if that proves necessary.

[Brice Rogers]

On the VBX Bearings website it is noted that double shielded bearings are sealed to keep contaminants out, and they are lubricated permanently. It uses the same zz rated as the original 6202zz bearings on my former G0698 for over 5 years, and our club now has that lathe with the same original bearings........with heavy usage, there has never been a problem with contamination, and believe me, that lathe has seen some serious dust!

The bearings on the 0766 are a lot bigger. I think some bearings have rubber seals and some are metal. I believe the zz are metal, but still keep out contaminants like dust.

Roger, I agree with the bulk of your post. Both zz and RS are made to keep out dust and contaminants.

But in your comment, "On the VBX Bearings website it is noted that double shielded bearings are sealed to keep contaminants out" is not 100% correct. The zz is shielded and the rs is sealed. The key word is "sealed". Yes, I know - - that is an issue of semantics and perhaps I'm picking "nits" here . On the VBX website they refer to zz as "each 6206ZZ bearing is closed with 2 Metal Shields" and the RS as "Closures: Rubber Sealed". In practice both closures would probably do fine.

The difference between the two is that with the shields, there is a paper-thin clearance or gap between the metal shield and the inner race. (I don't know exactly how thin it is, but it has got to be pretty small). It is a small enough clearance that it is effective in keeping the dust and particles out. The RS or rubber seals actually have a rubber seal in contact with both the inner and outer races. So there is no gap whatsoever. But, this causes a little drag and friction and also limits the upper speed and temperature that the seals can take.

So, upon doing more research, I think that I would probably replace (if I have to) the 6206zz with another set of shielded bearings. The RS bearings are sealed, but their upper temp range is less. The zz shields will adequately keep out contaminants and can withstand higher spindle speeds.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, first off, your bearing dynamic load is probably in Newtons, not lbs. So divide by 4.45 and get 4,382 lbs. While this still seems like a lot of weight, you know the forces an out of balance blank can exert.

In contrast, the 3520b has two 6207 bearings on the inboard side, the shaft is 35mm as compared to the 30mm of the grizzly. So by your reasoning could handle over twice the dynamic load of the Grizzly. This is the reason I thought the bearing arrangement looked light duty. Both of these lathes have a 6206 series on the outboard side.

Finally, industry standards designate 6000 series as extra light, 6200 series as light duty, and 6300 series as medium duty.

Hayes....thanks much for this information. I appreciate the education!
If the 6200 series bearings are considered light duty, and the 3520b uses two of them, I realize that is twice the load capability as one bearing.....but they are still "light duty" correct? My question then becomes is there a heavy duty bearing.....say a 6500[?] series that has the same dimensions of the 6206 zz and would make it possible to increase the load capability? I might have to do some research on this, and get back to the subject. Perhaps I will talk with some experts at VBX.

[Hayes Rutherford]

Roger, I don't think there is a 6500 series and only familiar with 6300 series(medium duty used by Robust)but I wouldn't worry. We are talking wood lathes not rock crushers. The last number in the series indicates the shaft size: 6207 is 35mm, 6206 is 30 mm and I suspect you multiply that number by 5 to get the size in mm. Something else that doesn't seem logical is that these bearings are c3 which means "loose fit"

Something else you mentioned was the bearings in your former G0698 were 6202 and the the G0766 had much larger ones. According to Grizzly's parts manual, they both use the same 6206zz bearings. So if they work in the 0766, they will surly work as well in the G0698. You might check that out, it could be a misprint.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, I don't think there is a 6500 series and only familiar with 6300 series(medium duty used by Robust)but I wouldn't worry. We are talking wood lathes not rock crushers. The last number in the series indicates the shaft size: 6207 is 35mm, 6206 is 30 mm and I suspect you multiply that number by 5 to get the size in mm. Something else that doesn't seem logical is that these bearings are c3 which means "loose fit"

Something else you mentioned was the bearings in your former G0698 were 6202 and the the G0766 had much larger ones. According to Grizzly's parts manual, they both use the same 6206zz bearings. So if they work in the 0766, they will surly work as well in the G0698. You might check that out, it could be a misprint.

That is correct, Hayes......seems my memory was faulty a bit...[it has been several years since I got those extra bearings for the 0698]. I did speak with someone at a bearing distributor, and the bearing size [outer dimension & inner bore dimension] is what determines the load a bearing can handle. The dimensions for a 6206 and a 6906 are different, so the dimensions of the race machined into the spindle housing on the headstock determines the actual bearing that will fit , of course....but the dimensions and load rating are fixed, and the material that the balls and race are made from are all pretty much the same, and the rating from brand to brand is as well.

What I was hoping was to be able to buy a more heavy duty bearing in the same size, but it looks as if that is not a possibility........oh well!

[Doug Ladendorf]

What I was hoping was to be able to buy a more heavy duty bearing in the same size, but it looks as if that is not a possibility........oh well!

Roger, you shouldn't need a more "heavy duty" bearing, but you CAN buy a better quality bearing, and I think that exercise would provide a great additional data point to the other information you have offered already on the G0766. I have replaced bearings with Nachi brand, made in Japan, which I have found to be very good. Many of us OWWMers use Accurate Bearing ( http://accuratebearing.com speak to Lynn) for good support and reasonable prices.

Doug